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 The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.

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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:03 am

According to the New York Times, the most common day for heart attacks is Monday. Seemingly, the stress of going back to work after the weekend is the reason.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:06 am

So Drumm takes a cut then Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:08 am

floatingingalway wrote:
According to the New York Times, the most common day for heart attacks is Monday. Seemingly, the stress of going back to work after the weekend is the reason.


That's interesting - but it says it applies to the retired population as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:22 am

In Scotland it appears to be because of too much



and



Last edited by Auditor #9 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:30 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : My complete and utter stupidity when it somes to uploading images :x)
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:28 am

**reply to ibis' post

Well the SFA are pro employer. Also, the SFA represent a vast array of different industries, so an overall average could be misleading. I don't blame the call centre folks though, nightmare.


Don't forget primary teachers work, what about 190 days pa. so 5 days USL is 2.6% according to the Tribune figures. The same % applied to a private sector employee, who may work 250 days pa equates to 6.5 days. That's a shit load of days sick. And that's an average.

The 31 day thing has to be leaving the procedure wide open to abuse. Surely that must be reviewed.


Last edited by EvotingMachine0197 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:28 am

floatingingalway wrote:
In [url=Scotland]Scotland[/url] it appears to be because of too much
and

I think I get the picture drunken
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:31 am

cactus flower wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:
In [url=Scotland]Scotland[/url] it appears to be because of too much
and

I think I get the picture drunken
Trying to get my head around uploading images has nearly driven me to the drink!! tongue
I've edited that mess now.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:32 am

Audi, you're great so you are. Many thanks
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:33 am

floatingingalway wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:
In [url=Scotland]Scotland[/url] it appears to be because of too much
and

I think I get the picture drunken
Trying to get my head around uploading images has nearly driven me to the drink!! tongue
I've edited that mess now.

And Auditor did a fine rescue job
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:44 am

I think this post got missed, because the discussion had gone over the page:

So, using the figures given, the sick days for teachers come to:

Primary: 30,000 teachers vs 149,000 sick days = 4.97 sick days per year

Secondary: 17,700 teachers vs 89,050 sick days = 5.03 sick days per year

Those compare favourably with small firm sick leave, and suggest that teachers are less likely to take sick leave than most employees.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:57 am

I didn't miss it ibis, I replied to it about 5 posts up.

My argument is that it is still a lot of sick leave. I find it hard to believe that people are genuinely this regularly sick. Especially if quitting time is half two.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:58 am

It wasn't missed I don't think Ibis - EVM replied to it.

I notice that call centre workers and teachers both miss a lot of days. Perhaps it is something to do with dealing with a lot of people. I did two half days with 30 children last week in a quasi teaching activity and lovely though they were there is no way I would like to do it full time.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:03 am

floatingingalway wrote:





Could I get a crate of them to celebrate my 3000th post ?
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:09 am

However, in defence of teachers;

They can't take annual leave when they like -when flights are cheap.
They can't take long coffee breaks or a long lunch.
They can't just go to the shop for a mars bar whenever they like.
They can't come in late or piss off early if they're not in the mood.
They can't post on MN while working at the same time.
They do have to put up with dozens of mini humans for 5 hours.

Can't be easy either.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:10 am

cactus flower wrote:
It wasn't missed I don't think Ibis - EVM replied to it.

I notice that call centre workers and teachers both miss a lot of days. Perhaps it is something to do with dealing with a lot of people. I did two half days with 30 children last week in a quasi teaching activity and lovely though they were there is no way I would like to do it full time.

I teach adults and find that exhausting after a while. I also find that being cooped up in a room all day with a group of people is really not healthy. Sometimes Mondays can be more stressful than other days because not only do you have to adjust to the working week yourself but it is your job to get everyone in the room into a positive learning mood. Missing a Monday doesn't do the teacher any favours as it means you have to cram more into the remaining four days.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:23 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
I didn't miss it ibis, I replied to it about 5 posts up.

My argument is that it is still a lot of sick leave. I find it hard to believe that people are genuinely this regularly sick. Especially if quitting time is half two.

I beg your pardon - I missed your reply. I don't really agree that 5 days sick time is a lot of sick time - that being what teachers actually take. Sure, the allowance is 31 days, which is a lot, but they're not taking that much sick leave - they're taking less than the private sector average for small firms.

To repeat that point - the average for the private sector is 8 days. The average for teachers if 5 days. I don't find it all difficult to believe that teachers get sick 5 days a year. Am I missing something?
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:26 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:





Could I get a crate of them to celebrate my 3000th post ?

Enjoy your 3,000 th EvotingMachine. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:33 am

ibis wrote:
EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
I didn't miss it ibis, I replied to it about 5 posts up.

My argument is that it is still a lot of sick leave. I find it hard to believe that people are genuinely this regularly sick. Especially if quitting time is half two.

I beg your pardon - I missed your reply. I don't really agree that 5 days sick time is a lot of sick time - that being what teachers actually take. Sure, the allowance is 31 days, which is a lot, but they're not taking that much sick leave - they're taking less than the private sector average for small firms.

To repeat that point - the average for the private sector is 8 days. The average for teachers if 5 days. I don't find it all difficult to believe that teachers get sick 5 days a year. Am I missing something?

Not sure if you are missing something, but possibly the SFA figure is for all sick leave, whereas the teacher's figure is uncertified SL only. I'm standable correctable on that.

From personal experience, anything more than 3-4 days uncertified out of 250 days raises eyebrows. At least in my game it does.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:46 am

In total, 608,422 sick days were taken in primary and secondary schools. Some 59,992 days were taken without medical certs. In primary, secondary, community and VEC schools around 11% of sick days are uncertified. Substitute teachers cost the state an estimated 183 million euro, according to the Department.”
The above information is available on any amount of press sites with a simple search, do the work yourselves folks.

If there are as has been stated 30,000 + 17, 700, total 47,700 teachers with 608,422 days sick leave, this gives a figure of 12.75 days per teacher per average of 177 working days. The private sector figure for working days would be 233 or 177 + 31.5%. Therefore the teachers equivalent figure would be 12.75 + 31.5% = 16.76 sick days on average as against an actual average of 8 sick days for the same working days in the private sector.

That said, that was not the point of my post, my point, as was stated several times, was why a higher figure on Mondays & Fridays, the answer of course is obvious to anyone who wants to admit it.

To Am..whateveryournameis I am not interested in the slightest degree in your opinion of me or my posts, if you want to disprove anything I ever post, do more research and less complaining, I think you’ll find it more productive.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:51 am

tonys, can you provide a link for that please. If you already found the site , it's a doddle to post the link.
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:53 am

I suppose its only the Government that works fewer days?
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:54 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
tonys, can you provide a link for that please. If you already found the site , it's a doddle to post the link.

Here it is I think: http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/latest-irish-news/Teacher-sickies-hit-60000-in.4717163.jp
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:58 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
ibis wrote:
EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
I didn't miss it ibis, I replied to it about 5 posts up.

My argument is that it is still a lot of sick leave. I find it hard to believe that people are genuinely this regularly sick. Especially if quitting time is half two.

I beg your pardon - I missed your reply. I don't really agree that 5 days sick time is a lot of sick time - that being what teachers actually take. Sure, the allowance is 31 days, which is a lot, but they're not taking that much sick leave - they're taking less than the private sector average for small firms.

To repeat that point - the average for the private sector is 8 days. The average for teachers if 5 days. I don't find it all difficult to believe that teachers get sick 5 days a year. Am I missing something?

Not sure if you are missing something, but possibly the SFA figure is for all sick leave, whereas the teacher's figure is uncertified SL only. I'm standable correctable on that.

From personal experience, anything more than 3-4 days uncertified out of 250 days raises eyebrows. At least in my game it does.

Ah - no, those figures are full sick leave. Here's the complete breakdown:

Primary (30,000 teachers):
109,000 certified sick days - 3.63 certified sick days/teacher
40,000 uncertified sick days - 1.33 uncertified sick days/teacher
149,000 total sick days - 4.97 total sick days/teacher

Secondary (17,700 teachers):
61,350 certified sick days - 3.47 certified sick days/teacher
27,700 uncertified sick days - 1.56 uncertified sick days/teacher
89,050 total sick days - 5.03 total sick days/teacher

The figure tonys is using - 608,422 - is actually the total number of days on which substitute teachers were employed. It covers the sick days (170,350) and all other absences such as training. That's made quite clear in the article I cited:

Quote :
In the 2007/2008 school year at primary level, substitute teachers were used to cover for 362,923 teaching days of which 30% or 109,000 were to cover certified sick leave and 11% or 40,000 days to cover for uncertified sick leave.

At secondary level where 17,700 teachers are employed, substitute teachers were used to cover for 245,399 days of which 25% or 61,350 were for certified sick leave and over 11% or 27,700 for uncertified sick leave.

Whoever wrote the Kilkenny People article simply used the total cover and assumed it was all sick days, but you'll have that, as they say.


Last edited by ibis on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:01 am

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PostSubject: Re: The TUI case for banning Mondays & Fridays.   Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:18 am

ibis wrote:
..
40,000 uncertified sick days - 1.33 uncertified sick days/teacher
..

Hmmm, now that I think about that, it tallies with the figure given by the local Principle at the last parent's association AGM.

Rant retracted - apologies offered.

So what's with the 213,000 other days then, have they never heard of ojt.
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