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 Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights

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PostSubject: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:17 pm

The Irish government is to make a challenge to the new US administration about rendition flights going through Shannon - and is even calling for it to close Guantanamo. But nothing is what it seems. Our government is using Shannon - a vital stopover point for the US military machine in the Middle East - as a stick with which to beat Obama over the head because of his plans to raise corporation tax - which would have a big impact on US 'investors' in Ireland and on which a substantial portion of the Irish economy is predicated.
The rotten hypocrisy of this is clearly apparent in that anti-war protestors here who have repeatedly called for the government to inspect rendition planes passing through Shannon have been comprehensively ignored. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has said that the government has never thus far had any reason to suspect that prisoners are passing through Shannon. This is complete bullshit because a cleaning lady found a prisoner in shackles on a plane a while ago. The Irish government is bound under the terms of our constitution to inspect any planes suspected of carrying people for the purpose of torture but it has consistently refused to meet that obligation. It has chosen instead to harrass and intimidate the people who keep contacting our police to ask them to inspect specific flights (there are a group of watchers present at Shannon most of the time who have in depth knowledge of which planes are used by the CIA etc etc). Irish Examiner today:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=77026-qqqx=1.asp
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:06 pm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/world/mhidojojqlid/

Do you think that the shredders in the White House working overtime?

I would like to know what law this was done under.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:43 am

cactus flower wrote:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/world/mhidojojqlid/

Do you think that the shredders in the White House working overtime?

I would like to know what law this was done under.

Try Executive Order 13233.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:22 am

Slim Buddha wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/world/mhidojojqlid/

Do you think that the shredders in the White House working overtime?

I would like to know what law this was done under.

Try Executive Order 13233.

This one...http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011101-12.html

Couldn't Obama repeal it ? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:28 am

There are inklings from the Obama camp that alot of Executive Orders will be repealed. I heard it on NBC Nightly News last night.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:45 am

johnfás wrote:
There are inklings from the Obama camp that alot of Executive Orders will be repealed. I heard it on NBC Nightly News last night.

That's interesting - I'm off to see what I can find out.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:46 am

They referred mainly to Stem Cell Research I think - but I'm sure it will apply to anything he disagrees with if he decides to go down that route.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:53 am

He wouldn't repeal an orange. That is just for those who are considered stupid by dimwits. He is talking about XOs about stem cell research and giving money for abortions in Africa. Meaningless twaddle.

That is a laugh Aragon, Ireland beating Obama over the head. Do you think Magic Arse is not going to suck up to the Mack Daddy.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:55 am

What's Executive Orders ? Are they laws that the President can pass on the spot ?
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:02 am

Got it in a nutshell, Auditor.

We call them Statutory Instruments here.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:07 am

johnfás wrote:
Got it in a nutshell, Auditor.

We call them Statutory Instruments here.
Really ? But no one can protest if they're not in the interests of the people ? That's more like tyranny. Can our government pass a S.I. then without Seanad or Opposition debates or protests or anything ? There must be some limit to what can be done with these things ? They must be like modifications to an existing law only ... ?
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:12 am

The short answer is yes a Statutory Instrument is passed without the assent of the Seanad or without debates. However, that is only half the story. Ministers can't pass such secondary legislation (which is what it is called) per se. They can only do so owing to a power vested in the primary legislation. That primary legislation and the power inherent within it has been debated and passed by the Oireachtas.

Simple example is something like the charge for a Passport. The primary legislation will say something like a Passport will be issued, provided the requirements of this Act are complied with and the relevant fee determined by the Minister is paid. There will then be a power stated in the legislation for the Minister to determine this fee by Statutory Instrument. The idea is that in order to up the fee by 5 euro you don't have to keep bringing legislation through the Oireachtas which frustrates, slows and clogs the legislative process.

However, you are quite right, the system is open to abuse and there has been contentious legislation containing the power of Statutory Instruments where the opposition has argued it exists in order to usurp the powers of the Dáil.
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:22 am

youngdan wrote:
He wouldn't repeal an orange. That is just for those who are considered stupid by dimwits. He is talking about XOs about stem cell research and giving money for abortions in Africa. Meaningless twaddle.

That is a laugh Aragon, Ireland beating Obama over the head. Do you think Magic Arse is not going to suck up to the Mack Daddy.

Magic Arse? Mack Daddy? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:30 am

Magic Arse is the Irish Minister for Finance/Brian Cowen because youngdan predicted this years budget deficit well over a year ago and decreed that Cowen need a Magic Arse from which to **** money because it's not coming from any other source. Was he wrong ?

Mack Daddy I don't know - something to do with GM ?
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:56 am

Mack Daddy is borrowed from an outside sourse, namely the man of the Lord himself.

Enjoy. http://www.nutkrackervideos.com/play.php?vid=208
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:14 am

youngdan wrote:
Mack Daddy is borrowed from an outside sourse, namely the man of the Lord himself.

Enjoy. http://www.nutkrackervideos.com/play.php?vid=208

I hear this guy campaigned for poor Hilary lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Irish government's sick hypocrisy about rendition flights   Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:23 am

This lad was for Hillary. I could sit in church listening to him or Obama's lad for hours.
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