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 Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today

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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:53 pm

KPMG 200 jobs going/gone.
5% pay cuts upto 35K. 10% above that.

KPMG planning pay cuts and lay-offs
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:57 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
KPMG 200 jobs going/gone.
5% pay cuts upto 35K. 10% above that.

KPMG planning pay cuts and lay-offs

I've been saying this for several weeks. I know a couple of people who have lost their jobs at KPMG and my two comments below apply to two others of the big accountancy firms. One of the major accountancy firms has cut most of their staff down to a 4 day week which is a 20% reduction in salaries. Solicitors are under the same pressure - A&L Goodbody let a significant number of their staff go and it is the same story at most of the big firms, the medium sized firms are in carnage.

johnfás wrote:
I know of several large accountancy firms who are
making major job cuts at the moment. Another is making across the board
pay cuts rising from 10% to 20%.

johnfás wrote:
I now know of another accountancy firm making large job losses and pay cuts beginning at 15%.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:03 pm

We need to change the thread title.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:18 pm

To what?

I was speaking to a senior Chartered Accountant on Sunday who was telling me basically 60%+ of his clients are surviving on a month by month basis. They can't get loans from the Banks and they have no certainty whether they will be here by the end of the summer. I would imagine that is true of a huge proportion of Irish owned business right now. That isn't to say that 60% are going to collapse, but it shows the pressure they are under and how many potential collapses there are out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:21 pm

johnfás wrote:
To what?

I was speaking to a senior Chartered Accountant on Sunday who was telling me basically 60%+ of his clients are surviving on a month by month basis. They can't get loans from the Banks and they have no certainty whether they will be here by the end of the summer. I would imagine that is true of a huge proportion of Irish owned business right now. That isn't to say that 60% are going to collapse, but it shows the pressure they are under and how many potential collapses there are out there.

The unemployment rate had changed - I've changed the title now.

It would be my guess that most of those 60% have downsized and will continue to do so. A lot of the unemployment so far has been construction related - that must be going to flatten off as the numbers are so reduced. The non-construction sector is being hit by the strength of the euro, the high costs here, and the global depression. That is only just starting to hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:25 pm

I think more than 60% of companies are going to be downsizing. The 60% refers to those who despite downsizing still have a very real threat to their business.

Any company where I know people working - which includes big and small, retail, professions, banks etc - are letting people go. The only exception I have come across is companies who are fairly new to a market and are building market share which inevitably leads to an increase in staff even if their proportionate staffing decreases. For example... if I start a new business selling discount clothing, my overall staff numbers may increase because I am opening a host of shops, but my staff numbers per shop may well have been reduced.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:27 pm

johnfás wrote:
I think more than 60% of companies are going to be downsizing. The 60% refers to those who despite downsizing still have a very real threat to their business.

Any company where I know people working - which includes big and small, retail, professions, banks etc - are letting people go. The only exception I have come across is companies who are fairly new to a market and are building market share which inevitably leads to an increase in staff even if their proportionate staffing decreases. For example... if I start a new business selling discount clothing, my overall staff numbers may increase because I am opening a host of shops, but my staff numbers per shop may well have been reduced.

You're right about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:57 pm

KPMG paying 6 weeks redundancy per year capped at 2 years salary. 6 weeks is good isn't it ?
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:10 pm

Yea it would be pretty good... but at the same time, you will find that about 50 or more of those who have been let go will be newly qualified accountants and they will in all likelihood get zilch or a little above. That is the way both accountancy and the law work. You have your training contract of around 3 years, when that expires your are either taken on in permanent fashion or shown the door. Obviously in the boom years most people were kept on but now virtually all are being shown the door and it costs the firms nothing to do so, because your contract is up. I know of one firm of solicitors who had 15 qualify this year, 14 are being let go with no compensation at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:26 am

Anecdotally, companies which are not struggling are using the recession as an excuse to cut jobs. I was shocked to hear that Bulmers have made 90 million or something this year but are still laying people off.

Also, partly thansk to this thread I've decided not to return to Ireland.

6 weeks redundancy is very generous. I believe that the statutory minimum is a day and a half for every month worked.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:41 am

shutuplaura wrote:
Anecdotally, companies which are not struggling are using the recession as an excuse to cut jobs. I was shocked to hear that Bulmers have made 90 million or something this year but are still laying people off.

Also, partly thansk to this thread I've decided not to return to Ireland.

6 weeks redundancy is very generous. I believe that the statutory minimum is a day and a half for every month worked.

That could be an ominous sign if profitable companies are also laying people off -on the other hand ...

So this thread has dissuaded you ? Hope it's a good choice - I heard on the radio a report from backpackers in Oz and fellas going out - the backpackers were moaning that there was not a lot of work but I think it's there if you want it. I travelled around Oz with a very prescient sheila who always got us to the right place at the right time god bless her. Its good to get ahead of the posse if you can - follow the seasons ... very natural.

You probably won't be staying there for that kind of work though ....

Things seem to have deteriorated horrendously here now - 350k + out of full time employment now ... it's just totally bizarre a turnaround to have happened so quick. I was just listening to one blogger or vlogger who was quoting from the Guardian saying that this is shag all to do with derivatives and subprime and we've actually reached Peak Oil, realised it and pulled back from exhausting it too much too quickly. Interesting theory.

Are you happy to be staying in Oz so ?
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:05 am

This thread, and the news of the emergancy budget plus one o two other factors. Ambivilant to be honest about staying here. I was uneasy coming back to the great unknown and I'm happy I don't have to face that. The Ireland I left is gone and I just have to accept that. Still a bit disapointed though. When the headline here said 7.7% unemployment I though thats not too bad, but now its double figures i (well we - both me and the missus) decided to think again.

If its peak oil we are facing I guess the scary thing is its not being recognised as such. I always imagined we'd know when we do start to run out of oil and could therefore begin to act decisively about implementing appropriate policies.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:59 am

The unemployment rate in Ireland is 7.7% at latest measurements. The 10.4% figure is quoted to in the Live Register. I quote from the CSO in this regard,

"The Live Register is not designed to measure unemployment. It includes
part-time workers (those who work up to three days a week), seasonal and casual
workers entitled to Jobseekers Benefit or Allowance. Unemployment is measured
by the Quarterly National Household Survey and the latest seasonally adjusted
figure, for September to November 2008, is 170,700 persons unemployed."

So unemployment is 7.7% - not 10.4%.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:50 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
The unemployment rate in Ireland is 7.7% at latest measurements. The 10.4% figure is quoted to in the Live Register. I quote from the CSO in this regard,

"The Live Register is not designed to measure unemployment. It includes
part-time workers (those who work up to three days a week), seasonal and casual
workers entitled to Jobseekers Benefit or Allowance. Unemployment is measured
by the Quarterly National Household Survey and the latest seasonally adjusted
figure, for September to November 2008, is 170,700 persons unemployed."

So unemployment is 7.7% - not 10.4%.

Was - that was at the end of November last year.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:55 pm

shutuplaura wrote:
This thread, and the news of the emergancy budget plus one o two other factors. Ambivilant to be honest about staying here. I was uneasy coming back to the great unknown and I'm happy I don't have to face that. The Ireland I left is gone and I just have to accept that. Still a bit disapointed though. When the headline here said 7.7% unemployment I though thats not too bad, but now its double figures i (well we - both me and the missus) decided to think again.

If its peak oil we are facing I guess the scary thing is its not being recognised as such. I always imagined we'd know when we do start to run out of oil and could therefore begin to act decisively about implementing appropriate policies.

Sorry if you feel you can't come back when you would like to. It is very difficult to make decisions like that. We came back to Ireland at a time when we were told everything was fecked and it worked out well for us (so far) but it is very different now I think. There is also the possibility that Australia might tighten up on immigration, so that changing your minds might not be straightforward.

These things are always a gamble.

I don't think its peak oil - oil prices are right down. I think its a lot to do with expansion of consumption in the east much faster than markets have expanded. Also, technology costs and some other factors have pushed profit rates down.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:33 pm

Hasn't technology not made some products a lot cheaper ?

Did anyone see the impact coming from the anarchy the internet could cause by collapsing markets which are composed of products in digital form like software, film and music etc. ? Less and less hard products out there compared to before you'd imagine so less and less stuff for people to make, distribute and walk to a shop for just download it free at the click of a button.

Maybe not though, as we saw before, excerpts of stuff on youtube like Monty Python has led to a 200% increase in the sale of those products it seems. Maybe the internet is just one big lump of memory and nostalgia you pay for....
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:41 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Hasn't technology not made some products a lot cheaper ?

Did anyone see the impact coming from the anarchy the internet could cause by collapsing markets which are composed of products in digital form like software, film and music etc. ? Less and less hard products out there compared to before you'd imagine so less and less stuff for people to make, distribute and walk to a shop for just download it free at the click of a button.

Maybe not though, as we saw before, excerpts of stuff on youtube like Monty Python has led to a 200% increase in the sale of those products it seems. Maybe the internet is just one big lump of memory and nostalgia you pay for....

It is the rate of profit, not the price, that I was saying was pushed down.

Technology is expensive, and machines wear out and have to be replaced, unlike staff. When new technology is introduced, it can give a competitive edge to whoever uses it first, but quickly everyone else has to adopt it, and then it becomes a cost on everyone's business.

Prices come down because of competition or shrinking demand, but they can't go below the cost of production or the firm would go bust.

The average rate of proft is squeezed at both ends - by prices coming down and by average cost of production going up.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:02 pm

Quote :
Employers in U.S. Cut 651,000 Jobs; Unemployment Rose to 8.1%

March 6 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. unemployment rate surged in February to the highest level in more than 25 years and the economy lost more than 600,000 jobs for a third consecutive month, pointing to further reductions in spending.

Payrolls fell by 651,000 and revisions for the prior two months lopped off an additional 161,000 jobs, the Labor Department said today in Washington. The jobless rate surged to 8.1 percent, more than forecast and the highest since December 1983.

Tumbling demand globally is prompting companies from General Motors Corp. to Sears Holdings Corp. to step up firings, perpetuating a vicious circle of job losses and spending cuts. The Obama administration has set aside immediate concerns about a budget gap and pushed through a $787 billion stimulus plan aimed at creating or saving 3.5 million jobs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aesonW0og4.Y&refer=home
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:14 pm

Gerry Ryan "braces himself" for a paycut ....

Quote :
THE 2,300-strong workforce at RTE, including high-profile stars such as Ryan Tubridy and Gerry Ryan, are bracing themselves for a pay cut as management seeks to slice €10m off the wage bill.

With advertising revenue plunging, director general Cathal Goan told staff yesterday that the broadcaster is now forecasting a shortfall of €68m this year. Just last October it had predicted a loss of €25m for 2009.

Some €10m of the €68m shortfall is to be clawed back through reducing wages, and Mr Goan said he couldn't rule out job cuts.

....

Some of the broadcaster's biggest names including Pat Kenny, Miriam O'Callaghan, Eamon Dunphy and Joe Duffy have already taken voluntary 10pc cuts to their salaries but others, including Gerry Ryan and Ryan Tubridy, have refused.
...
Efforts to contact Mr Ryan last night were unsuccessful, but Mr Tubridy, who earned €346,667 in 2006 and said previously that taking a cut was not an option for him due to legal reasons, told the Irish Independent that he had said "what he was going to say" on the matter.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/stars-braced-for-pay-cuts-as-rte-seeks-836468m-in-savings-1663283.html
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:54 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
The unemployment rate in Ireland is 7.7% at latest measurements. The 10.4% figure is quoted to in the Live Register. I quote from the CSO in this regard,

"The Live Register is not designed to measure unemployment. It includes
part-time workers (those who work up to three days a week), seasonal and casual
workers entitled to Jobseekers Benefit or Allowance. Unemployment is measured
by the Quarterly National Household Survey and the latest seasonally adjusted
figure, for September to November 2008, is 170,700 persons unemployed."

So unemployment is 7.7% - not 10.4%.

Was - that was at the end of November last year.

I understand that, but the official rate of unemployment is in that document and indeed if you look at this table, many jurisdictions have similar practices;



The Economist persists in using the erroneous figures published in the Live Register.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:01 am

It is difficult to get this right and up to date, given how quickly things are deterioriating.
Also, there are a lot of people who have been put on three day weeks, rather than on permanent part time schedules.

I am beginning to appreciate the German practice of keeping people in work through subsidising short time working. It maintains the skills base on which the strength of the German economy has been based.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:03 am

Yes, it is most certainly a desirable option, and most people will take it, particularly younger people who don't have debt obligations and there are alot of them. As I just posted on another thread, I have three friends who are physiotherapists, all want hospital experience, all on the dole and all are actually quite prepared to work for free, just claiming their dole. Why would the health service reject such offers, even in the short term?
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:07 am

johnfás wrote:
Yes, it is most certainly a desirable option, and most people will take it, particularly younger people who don't have debt obligations and there are alot of them. As I just posted on another thread, I have three friends who are physiotherapists, all want hospital experience, all on the dole and all are actually quite prepared to work for free, just claiming their dole. Why would the health service reject such offers, even in the short term?

Did they give a reason? Insurance? Lack of space?
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:12 am

Insurance was the initial reason and then general unavailability to discuss the situation. I know a number of people my age in a similar situation, they don't have mortgages to pay so they aren't in the same boat as alot of people 5 or 6 years older than them. Most simply don't accept the idea of emigrating to solve Ireland's problem, like previous generations were encouraged to do. They want a future in Ireland and are prepared to work for very little, simply to contribute and gain experience, for at least the early years of their professional life.

Government should be supporting rather than neglecting these people - it doesn't cost anything. As I said, alot of people in their early 20s are living at home with little debt and can survive on lower salaries for a couple of years. Most had planned to live at home and save for extortionate house prices anyway, but these prices are constantly reducing so that makes it easier again. Government just needs to introduce programmes to support these people - it actually wouldn't be a huge cost, even if it was a programme that you could volunteer into. We have lots of qualified and intelligent young people, why leave them demoralised on the dole doing nothing? Let them contribute.
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PostSubject: Re: Jobs and Unemployment Watch - Unemployment 7.7 % and Rising - 450 headline losses today   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:23 am

Internship of some kind might be the thing? There would be costs in insurance and supervision, but well worth it. Could they work in the new primary health care centres?

Are they allowed to work privately, and set their own rates?
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