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 Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News

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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:41 pm

More trains is the answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:59 am

Here is Peter Schiff on CNN telling the presenter what happens wihen the money gets pumped into the Auto Industry from the American Govt.
1 the money comes from taxes ie less money for others
2 the money is printed - less money for everyone through inflation
3 the money is borrowed, thus reducing the amount of money other investors can borrowi for potentially more productive purposes

Schiff says here that the Auto Industry must be allowed to fail in its current incarnation and that if it is it will be thriving again in 5 years in a new shape.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGYljIw6U3Q
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:47 am

I'm changing my work vehicle over to biofuel next week as a trial. We'll see how the engine manages with it - we're not adapting it first, it seems we don't need to.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:50 am

Peter O'Brien wrote:
I'm changing my work vehicle over to biofuel next week as a trial. We'll see how the engine manages with it - we're not adapting it first, it seems we don't need to.

Petrol or diesel?
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:58 am

Diesel jeep.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:11 am

Senate rejection of 14 billion to car manufacturers GM and Chrysler. Asian and American stocks headed South overnight as did the dollar against the yen.

Quote :
Dec. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Asian stocks, U.S. index futures and the dollar tumbled after the Senate rejected a bailout for American automakers, threatening to deepen the global recession. Treasuries rallied and yields fell to record lows.

Less for Ford, more for Nissan you'd think but -

Quote :
The MSCI Asia Pacific Index lost 3.4 percent to 85.13 as of 4:38 p.m. in Tokyo after senators voted down a bill to provide $14 billion of emergency funds for General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC. Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. plunged more than 11 percent. The dollar fell to a 13-year low against the yen, while the cost of protecting Asian bonds against default advanced. Metals and crude oil prices slumped.

“Investors have been betrayed again by U.S. politicians,” said Yasuhiro Miyata, who helps manage about $109 billion at DIAM Co. in Tokyo. “Even with the knowledge that we are in the midst of a crisis, they were unable to come to an agreement and investors have decided to abandon ship. This could have a substantial effect on unemployment.”


Just one fund manager frustrated by the vacillating of Govt. in these markets. Less money for Jeeps, Hummers, Dodges, more for VW Polos, Fiat Cinqecentos, Mini Coopers ? - apparently not (yet)

Quote :
Standard & Poor’s 500 Index futures sank 4.3 percent. The measure dropped 2.9 percent yesterday, as General Motors shares plunged 10 percent, extending an 83 percent annual decline. Futures on the Dow Jones Euro Stoxx 50 Index, a benchmark for the euro region, lost 4.7 percent.

“It’s over with,” Majority Leader Harry Reid said on the Senate floor in Washington. “I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It’s not going to be a pleasant sight.”

Japan’s Nikkei 225 Stock Average retreated 5.6 percent to 8,235.87. The CSI 300 Index sank 3.8 percent in China, after a government official said growth will slow more sharply next quarter. China Mobile Ltd. fell 7.1 percent in Hong Kong.


Bloomberg
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:11 pm

Well the latest is that Bush is thinking about using Paulsons bank fund to bail out the automakers.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:33 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Well the latest is that Bush is thinking about using Paulsons bank fund to bail out the automakers.

Yeah I heard that. I don't know exactly what they can do with it - does it have to be a Bill that gets passed or is the only thing for it now some Executive order 66666 or some escape hatch ?

I don't understand nothing about the ins and outs of the American Seanad.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:35 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Well the latest is that Bush is thinking about using Paulsons bank fund to bail out the automakers.

Yeah I heard that. I don't know exactly what they can do with it - does it have to be a Bill that gets passed or is the only thing for it now some Executive order 66666 or some escape hatch ?

I don't understand nothing about the ins and outs of the American Seanad.

I think its a question of someone waving a magic wand?
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:46 am

Car and car component workers have started to occupy their factories

Republic Windows and Doors in the US got an improved payout, but couldn't keep the plant open;



and here in Germany, the same thing is going on -



The German workers are highly skilled toolmakers who have very little chance of another job anywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:24 pm

I am delighted that the bailout plan failed. It's about time that the free market was allowed to work and put these inefficient, unsustainable and unreconstructed dinousaurs out of business and let better and more competitive firms take their place. GM, Ford and Chrysler should be all let fail since they are sucking up capital and keeping workers in unsustainable jobs. This bailout was going to interfere with that necessary economic transition.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:28 pm

I wouldn't count on them going into bankruptcy yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:31 pm

johnfás wrote:
I wouldn't count on them going into bankruptcy yet.

Well if they can restructure themselves, all well and good, but if they can't, it's time for them to wiped from the board and for others to take their place.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:33 pm

I mean any form of bankruptcy. They will restructure themselves through Section 11 (I think it is?) bankruptcy which is more like Examinership under the Companies Acts here. However, I wouldn't count on either. You might see a renewed bailout bill on the Hill next week.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:36 pm

johnfás wrote:
I mean any form of bankruptcy. They will restructure themselves through Section 11 (I think it is?) bankruptcy which is more like Examinership under the Companies Acts here. However, I wouldn't count on either. You might see a renewed bailout bill on the Hill next week.

We might see a renewed bill and I hope it fails to. The government has been running around trying to bail this and that out over the past year and if they can do it for car manufacturers, then I don't see why they shouldn't do it for airlines, restaurants, retailing chains and so on. The government governs best who governs least. They are forgetting this truism as they hurry themselves to sort out everything with a Keynesian orgy of truly enormous proportions.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:40 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
I am delighted that the bailout plan failed. It's about time that the free market was allowed to work and put these inefficient, unsustainable and unreconstructed dinousaurs out of business and let better and more competitive firms take their place. GM, Ford and Chrysler should be all let fail since they are sucking up capital and keeping workers in unsustainable jobs. This bailout was going to interfere with that necessary economic transition.

What we're talking about is the difference between an orderly retreat and a bloody rout. If the rug is pulled out overnight without hiving off and conserving as much as possible that is viable, there will be more than 2 million unemployed people concentrated in relatively small areas, as the car industry is geographically concentrated, as are all the dependent parts operations. The knock on would be hundreds and thousands of additional jobs lost needlessly in parts suppliers and other spin off. Then every service business in these areas would fail and the local authorities would be bankrupted. Property would be completely unsaleable so people could not afford to move without abandoning their home. Each person would be competing with thousands of others every time they got a job. It would take years to replace the jobs (if it ever happened) by which time people would be unskilled and virtually unemployable. This happened to plenty of people in Ireland when big factories left small towns, and the result is a layer of people who years later don't have any skills, aspirations or self respect.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:44 pm

cactus flower wrote:
What we're talking about is the difference between an orderly retreat and a bloody rout. If the rug is pulled out overnight without hiving off and conserving as much as possible that is viable, there will be more than 2 million unemployed people concentrated in relatively small areas, as the car industry is geographically concentrated, as are all the dependent parts operations. The knock on would be hundreds and thousands of additional jobs lost needlessly in parts suppliers and other spin off. Then every service business in these areas would fail and the local authorities would be bankrupted. Property would be completely unsaleable so people could not afford to move without abandoning their home. Each person would be competing with thousands of others every time they got a job. It would take years to replace the jobs (if it ever happened) by which time people would be unskilled and virtually unemployable. This happened to plenty of people in Ireland when big factories left small towns, and the result is a layer of people who years later don't have any skills, aspirations or self respect.

My position all along has been that if there is a clear and workable business plan then I am not against bail outs of large industries like that. I don't have the expertise to judge whether or not the plan was viable so I'll accept the judgement of those who do. However, if the bailout fails the doomsday scenario outlined above will not necessarily happen. What is more likely to happen is they will enter the equivalent of examinership during which they will reorganise and continue or they will be liquidated with the profitable parts of the business being bought up by other companies/investors. The doomsday scenario of the entire industry just disappearing is very unlikely. Even in a company like Lehman Brothers there will be large parts of the business which will continue under a different guise.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:46 pm

johnfás wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
What we're talking about is the difference between an orderly retreat and a bloody rout. If the rug is pulled out overnight without hiving off and conserving as much as possible that is viable, there will be more than 2 million unemployed people concentrated in relatively small areas, as the car industry is geographically concentrated, as are all the dependent parts operations. The knock on would be hundreds and thousands of additional jobs lost needlessly in parts suppliers and other spin off. Then every service business in these areas would fail and the local authorities would be bankrupted. Property would be completely unsaleable so people could not afford to move without abandoning their home. Each person would be competing with thousands of others every time they got a job. It would take years to replace the jobs (if it ever happened) by which time people would be unskilled and virtually unemployable. This happened to plenty of people in Ireland when big factories left small towns, and the result is a layer of people who years later don't have any skills, aspirations or self respect.

My position all along has been that if there is a clear and workable business plan then I am not against bail outs of large industries like that. I don't have the expertise to judge whether or not the plan was viable so I'll accept the judgement of those who do. However, if the bailout fails the doomsday scenario outlined above will not necessarily happen. What is more likely to happen is they will enter the equivalent of examinership during which they will reorganise and continue or they will be liquidated with the profitable parts of the business being bought up by other companies/investors. The doomsday scenario of the entire industry just disappearing is very unlikely. Even in a company like Lehman Brothers there will be large parts of the business which will continue under a different guise.

I don't think we're in disagreement johnfás. I'm talking about what would happen without Chapter 11 and time to reorganise. I had read that the companies are in such a state that they need funding even to enter Chapter 11.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:49 pm

That is probably true. I would imagine the conditions which need to be met to enter Chapter 11 are similar to the conditions we require for the Courts to grant protection under the Companies Acts - namely a reasonable chance of survival following the period of Court protection. It is very rare that an Irish company goes into examinership because it is very rare that the requisite standard is attained.

However, I do believe that Chapter 11 protection is for a much longer period which might explain why more companies enter it in America. Court protection under examinership only extends to 70 days. Irish examinership legislation has improved alot... it was originally introduced in haste in response to a pressing difficulty... as with most of our legislation.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:56 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:53 pm

Good little report on Ecogeek about an individual who retrofits luxury monstruous cars. There's a glut of cars so it's a fine idea to change the shells that are there already. Car enthusiasts and Boy Racers have been at it for a while already, rejigging cars from the 80s and further back. There's something lovely about seeing the different models at a rally if you've ever seen them - old Escorts, Cortinas, Fiestas tend to be popular ones.

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2386/

with permission from Ecogeek

Other vehicle news :



Quote :
DETROIT: Chrysler said Wednesday that it would close all 30 of its factories for at least one month, starting at the end of this week, in response to plunging vehicle sales in the United States.

The company said the plants, which employ 46,000 union workers, would resume production no sooner than Jan. 19. Some will remain closed for several more weeks. Normally, the Detroit automakers close their plants for about two weeks at the end of the year.

In addition, Ford Motor said Wednesday evening that it would extend the holiday shutdown at most of its plants to a third week.
IHT
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:20 am

Machines politics economics all in one word - 'bailout' ..
Ball-breaking conditions imposed to be met by 31st March or they give the money back. The last thing Bush will be remembered for ?

Quote :
Senate GOP unveils alternative Auto Rescue/Bailout Bill

In the face of mounting opposition from Senate Republicans for his own party's Auto Rescue/Bailout Bill, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) this morning told the lot of them to come up with something better. Freshman Republican Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) thinks he has done just that, unveiling an alternative bill today that he says has support from within the auto industry. In exchange for the $14 billion in government loans, the bill lays out three conditions for Detroit automakers.

1. Convert at least two-thirds of their creditors' debt to equity by March 31st, or either repay the loans or file for bankruptcy.
2. UAW workers must accept the same pay, benefits and work rules as employees of import-brand factories.
3. Half of Detroit automakers' payments into the UAW-administered VEBA funds for retired workers must be made in stock rather than cash
.

Efforts by the White House to convince Senate Republicans that the bill already passed by the House is the right way to go have seemingly hit a brick wall. At this time, it is not believed that Democrats could muster the required 60 votes for passage in the Senate if the bill were voted on in the next few days.
Autoblog
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:40 am

Highbridnation blog reports that HYUNDAI are doing an offer :

Lose Your Job Give the Car Back

Quote :
In case you’ve been living under a rock for the last six months you know that we are in a global recession, and while most car companies are seeking government bailouts and cutting employees and wages and trying to break unions Hyundai is actually trying to look out for the common man. Hyundai’s lose your job return your vehicle program will allow Hyundai owners who fall on hard times the ability to return their vehicles w/no penalties. Of course there are a few catches to this program “Hyundai Assurance Program” only applies to customers stricken by misfortune outside of their control, such as losing their job, becoming disabled or losing their driver’s license for medical reasons.

Customers must also have made at least two payments on the car already. In addition, Hyundai will only refund the depreciation on the returned car up to $7,500. After the first 12 months, customers have the option of extending the program for a fee through their dealership. I know Hyundai isn’t the sexiest car on the road but with these incentives it might be worth looking into.

I don't understand the depreciation stuff but I do understand what a tracker mortgage is...
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:56 pm

Quote :
Fiat Slides on Concern About Costs From Planned Chrysler Stake

Jan. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Fiat SpA dropped to the lowest in at least 24 years in Milan trading after analysts said the automaker’s planned alliance with Chrysler LLC may increase costs and saddle it with a share of the U.S. company’s losses.

Italy’s largest carmaker fell as much as 4.8 percent to 4.21 euros, the lowest since at least Jan. 2, 1985, and was priced at 4.26 euros as of 12:12 p.m. local time. Fiat lost 1.3 percent yesterday after earlier jumping 6 percent on news that it had agreed to take a 35 percent stake in Chrysler.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aSZfyYrhaKdw

Quote :

Senate Bill Would Exchange Cash for Gas Guz

A new bill introduced in the Senate this month is being called the "Cash for Clunkers" program. It would offer drivers a $4,500 voucher for turning in their gas-guzzling cars for more fuel-efficient ones.

It seems simple, but there are a few requirements that a driver would have to meet in order to cash in. The vehicle being traded in must be drivable and have a fuel-economy rating of less than 18 miles per gallon. The new car must exceed federal fuel economy targets for its vehicle class by 25 percent, must cost less than $45,000 and be a 2004 model or later.

While this is a good idea in theory, there would be easy ways to take advantage of this program without actually making a dramatic improvement in fuel efficiency. Someone could trade in their old car for a truck or SUV that is considered fuel efficient for its class, but doesn't actually improve the drivers overall fuel performance. The senators backing this bill claim that this program could save 40,000 to 80,000 barrels of oil a day in four years. I think that this type of program is the right kind of idea - one that aims to help people across the country reduce their fuel consumption, but I think they could do better. There aren't high hopes for this bill to pass, but I hope to see something bigger and more effective pass soon.
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2490/81/
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:38 pm

Progress, although glacial, is being made...
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