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 Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News

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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:45 pm

The Tesla Roadster is landing in Europe, according to the Irish Times today
Quote :
THE NEW Tesla electric supercar is now on sale in Europe, and Irish buyers willing to pay in the region of €99,000 plus taxes are being invited to submit their orders for delivery next year, according to Aaron Platshon, European marketing manager for the new car brand.

"The Roadster has been approved for sale across the EU and an Irish buyer placing a deposit now will receive their car in May 2009," says Platshon.
Electric Supercar makes it to Europe



Shane O'Donoghue in the Irish Times continues ...
Quote :
The Tesla has become something of an icon for the future of electric cars in recent years, but much of that hype was prior to its production. Now it is here, and on sale.

The viability of electric cars is still in question, given the carbon-emitting nature of electricity generation.

However, the Tesla's launch coincides with promising news from Japan, who pledged at this year's G8 summit to cut overall carbon dioxide emissions by 60-80 per cent by 2050.

To assist with such ambitious targets, the Japanese government has joined forces with national electricity supply companies and carmakers, with plans to build hundreds of "quick-recharge" power stations and other infrastructure to accommodate electric vehicles.

This is part of a programme that will involve installing power outlets at car parks, supermarkets and restaurants for drivers to use, free of charge.


And the Financial Times had some more on this about Japan the other day...
Quote :
Japan is preparing for the arrival of plug-in electric cars next year with plans to build hundreds of “quick recharge” power stations and other infrastructure to accommodate the vehicles.

Drivers in Japan will be the first in the world to be offered battery-powered cars by large automakers. The transport and power system upgrades, which are supported by the government, carmakers and electricity utilities, are designed to promote rapid adoption by easing concerns about the cars’ convenience and driving range.

Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco), the utility giant that supplies Japan’s capital region, said it had developed a recharging device that could provide enough power in a five-minute stop to drive a small electric car 40 km – a big advance over current experimental systems. A 10-minute charge delivered 60km worth of power, it said.
Japan fuels electric car revolution

Is the Future finally coming?
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:49 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:

Is the Future finally coming?

I think so Auditor, it seems we have reached a commercial tipping point when it comes to electric cars, we'll be seeing their prices tumble as more and more are purchased.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:19 am

Still no sign of personal jet packs though?

Anyway, if you want "alternative" transport. How about we roll everywhere on a bed or oranges. Unlike oil we can grow more and they can provide a healthy snack while on the move.
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PostSubject: Steam   Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:38 pm

This is how inefficient the internal petrol combustion engine is .... now someone somewhere wants to utilise all that escaping heat...



Quote :
Say "steam power" and you conjure up images of Stevenson's rocket, Isambard Kingdom Brunel and the heyday of the Victorian railways – romantic, but hardly the stuff of a clean, cutting-edge technology.

But steam could be about to make a comeback thanks to a company that is trying to make the internal combustion engine more efficient.

Clean Power Technologies, in Newhaven on the English south coast, is developing steam hybrid engines that claw back some of the immense amount of energy wasted by the internal combustion engine. Ultimately they aim to develop a car engine that runs partly on steam power.

"When you talk of steam people think you are going backwards," said Abdul Mitha, the company's CEO and president, "Anywhere where you are wasting a lot of heat, we can go in, capture the heat and turn it into energy savings ... Steam has tremendous power. If it can drive a steam locomotive, why can't it drive an automotive engine?"

Mitha's company aims to target the wasted heat that is currently pumped out of the exhaust and convert it into useful power. Of the energy in your petrol tank, just 27% is converted into forward motion, 33% is spent cooling the engine, 4% is lost as friction and a whopping 36% is lost as exhaust heat. "There is a lot of heat that is created and totally wasted," said Mitha. Clean Power Technologies aims to recover 40% of this exhaust heat.

Guardian
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:57 pm

Recovering the lost flue gases/exhaust is very very expensive. To recover most of this heat you have to condense the water vapour in the gases. This water will then absorb the various oxides from the air and turn acidic making shite of any metal parts (unless they are very expensive).
The problem with the above is that the inefficiency wiould be large. the exchanger would be quite big. Further any system that uses electricity (refrigeration) to recover heat (steam) will be more expensive as we are reducing the grade of energy from elec to heat.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:04 pm

riven wrote:
Recovering the lost flue gases/exhaust is very very expensive. To recover most of this heat you have to condense the water vapour in the gases. This water will then absorb the various oxides from the air and turn acidic making shite of any metal parts (unless they are very expensive).
The problem with the above is that the inefficiency wiould be large. the exchanger would be quite big. Further any system that uses electricity (refrigeration) to recover heat (steam) will be more expensive as we are reducing the grade of energy from elec to heat.

Moving freight onto rail and developing in rail corridors would seem to be a more effective approach than trying to fix the internal combustion engine? And what about going electric?
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:07 pm

** cactus posted above

riven wrote:
Recovering the lost flue gases/exhaust is very very expensive. To recover most of this heat you have to condense the water vapour in the gases. This water will then absorb the various oxides from the air and turn acidic making shite of any metal parts (unless they are very expensive).
The problem with the above is that the inefficiency would be large. the exchanger would be quite big. Further any system that uses electricity (refrigeration) to recover heat (steam) will be more expensive as we are reducing the grade of energy from elec to heat.
Do you know anything about the engines of ocean liners? I believe that though massive they generate a lot more than movement and electricity - the heat is used to distill water and provide heated water for showers, heating systems and other stuff. You get a lot more use out of the same gallonage of diesel per person.

What about thermoelectric devices attached to the engine to capture waste heat in a car? Are those things any way efficient at all? All this business of trying to capture the escaping heat would be bypassed once engines are more or less battery operated like in a lot of electric vehicles coming out now - isn't that correct? Battery operated cars don't lose energy in heat (although heat is created when the electricity is produced so there must be some loss somewhere) One thing could be to build an expensive 'engine' like in the design above that is highly efficient (and expensive) but which generates electricity to power electric cars ...

Other good green and clean tech sites:
http://earth2tech.com/ - Californian?
http://cleantechnica.com/
http://www.greencarcongress.com/
http://www.greentechmedia.com/
http://www.azocleantech.com/default.asp - a telephone book??
http://www.icis.com/Home/Default.aspx - interesting ... Cnemicals
http://www.icis.com/blogs/biofuels/
http://www.cleanedge.com/ - serious business green


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:17 am

Algae Jet Fuel Makes the Grade cheers
(we can all sleep soundly now)



Quote :
Algae biofuel maker Solazyme said today that its microbial-derived jet fuel has passed inspection with flying colors. The South San Francisco-based startup had its algal-derived aviation fuel studied by the Southwest Research Institute, a fuel analysis lab, and it passed the American Society for Testing and Materials protocol, the first algae-based fuel to do so, according to the company.

The race for algae biofuels to take flight is on. Just last week, a new player spun out of Arizona State University’s Laboratory for Algae Research & Biotechnology picked up $3 million to further the research into and eventual commercialization of a kerosene-based aviation fuel derived from algae. Solazyme, meanwhile, which was founded in 2003, picked up $45.4 million last month. However, just like in terrestrial transport, there’s plenty of room for multiple players in aviation fuels. Solazyme estimates that in the U.S. alone, 1.6 billion gallons of jet fuel are used every month.

Still, Solazyme has a long way to go. CEO Jonathan Wolfson said recently that the company would be able to produce millions of gallons of biofuel from algae within three years, up from just thousands today. That’s an ambitious goal, especially given that the company doesn’t plan on breaking ground for its first commercial-scale plant until 2010. So until then, air travel will still likely destroy any attempt one makes to reduce one’s carbon footprint.
Earth2Tech
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:28 am

Audi, have you come across the Cyclone Waste Heat Engine ?



http://www.cyclonepower.com/cyclone_engine.html
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:56 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Audi, have you come across the Cyclone Waste Heat Engine ?



http://www.cyclonepower.com/cyclone_engine.html

An External Combustion engine - Jesus why hasn't someone thought about that already?? There must be a snag ... lots of googling for me on this one now.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:37 pm

Suck
Squeeze
Bang
Blow

-Isn't that the story of the internal combustion engine? I'd say the snag with an external combustion engine might be the 'Squeeze' or compression stage; they would need to engineer it so that little compression is lost.

Maybe there is no compression phase - maybe it's suck bang blow?
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:40 pm


The Chevy Volt

Autobloggreen is reporting today on how bloggers love green cars and sustainable movement technology - zippies or travel addicts who are worried about getting their fix long term?

This interest in products revealed by hits on the internet must surely contribute to trends in products themselves? Isn't it a sort of feedback which the companies could use to augment products in the first place? Maybe it'll only be a matter of time before products are created purely from interest in them on the internet? It's almost like getting shares in the company, the dividend being the manufacture of the product the consumer wants.

Quote :
Bloggers love environmentally friendly cars. Or so it seems, according to research performed by J.D. Power and Associates. The most commonly referenced brands in blog posts over the last six months are Toyota, Honda and General Motors. This shouldn't come as shocking news, considering that the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and Chevy Volt are all hot topics right now and are all expected to be thoroughly redesigned or first introduced within the next few years. Naturally, then, these are the brands that are getting the most publicity and are likely the ones that you are most interested in hearing about.

Not all of the blog posts were positive, though, and JDP therefore kept separate numbers for each manufacturer counting how many good things were written about their sustainability and efforts to reduce global warming. The surprising winner of that group was Nissan, though that brand only got two percent of all mentions overall. We blog, they watch, we blog. Fun!
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/24/toyota-honda-and-gm-most-blogged/
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:38 am

And this is why we shouldn't stop building SOME of our roads - could a lot of things be coming together? From the SBP again
State to unveil electric car plan

Quote :
A government plan to spearhead a move by Irish motorists to electric cars is to be unveiled shortly.

The Electric Transport Programme, to be announced by Minister for Energy Eamon Ryan and Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey, is aimed at helping Ireland meet EU targets on greenhouse gas emissions.

The plan will use Israel, Denmark and Portugal as models for a new electric grid system being developed for ‘clean vehicles’.

A senior ESB official last week visited Israel to assess the $200 million grid project led by international software company Better Place, which was adopted there last year.

This type of thing could seriously affect our balance of payments with oil and divert the revenues saved into indigenous industries or simply jobs at home ...

Quote :
The software company has piloted an electric grid network to recharge and replace batteries for standard-size electric cars and SUVs now being manufactured by Renault and Nissan in Israel.

A spokeswoman for Ryan confirmed he had discussions with company representatives and has been working on an electric vehicles policy that will be announced shortly.

Fine Gael’s energy spokesman Simon Coveney this weekend called for ‘‘radical and ambitious thinking’’ on the issue by the government and the ESB.

Coveney last week met with ESB chief executive Padraig McManus to discuss the aplicability of a grid network here for a new generation of clean vehicles being pioneered in Israel and Denmark.

Denmark’s largest utility company, DONG Energy - which generates 18 per cent of its electricity from wind energy - subscribed to the new business model earlier this year.

The new electric grid pilot scheme for cars in Israel involves ‘smart charge’ stations for batteries.
The cars are equipped with GPS-style energy monitors to alert drivers when they need to plug into an electric recharge grid operator system.

This might use electricity from excess wind or from wave power generated by the Red Snake we saw the other day off the coast of Portugal ... the stations themselves could potentially involved batteries which catch locally-produced wind energy, thus acting as that battery component in the chain. Even the cars themselves could act as batteries by being plugged into the grid and intelligently getting charged when there is a peaking over-supply of wind.



Not today though Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:44 am



Is it a bus? ... is it a train?
















It's both - the truck that drives on tracks



Quote :
But that's only half of the coolness of the Blade Runner. The most exciting possibility is that Silvertip hopes they've found a way to quickly and simply drive the bus onto some train tracks, and then have it become a train. The advantage, of course, being that trains are far more efficient than buses, but can't necessarily get to all the same places that buses can.

Not coming to the West Clare railway project anytime soon but would it have applications at all? Ecogeek is calling the idea a 'bladerunner'. Why are trains more efficient anyway? Less friction or what?

Ecogeek
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:21 pm

SUCK SQUEEZE BANG BLOW

The strokes of an internal combustion engine but some people aren't happy with the 'suck' and are putting 'pump' in where traditionally there was sucking.

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2267/
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/21620/?a=f

However ...


Others are talking about pumping other stuff into automobile manufacture and that's MONEY. On the image just below is what GM have in the tank and what their mpg is - $2 billion+ per month is leaving their wallet and they have 16 billion left ... What a Face So what though - let it fail I say but it'll need to be retooled if it's going to be propped up as Obama says on the opening of the video below. The American auto industry really is in some trouble and is that because they are all going around driving dinosaurs and not Toyota Yarises and Nissan Micrae ? (Nissan have stopped producing the Micra - anyone like to own one while they're still around - my belief is that the second model - the 'Nun's Car' - will become the Beetle of the 21st Century)


But GM looks dead in the water and Ford is swimming in behind now, exhausted too. They'll have to try to produce alternative vehicles fairly quickly now if their industry is to survive .. thing is, an alternative vehicle in the States is one that does more than 30 mpg.





Nicked from the General Motors thread on the Pin
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:44 pm

The situation has moved or could move from theoretical discussion on green vehicles and consumption of oil in America to what may be going to happen to the Big Three American Automakers in reality. It could be a big shake-up and might not come at a more crucial time.

GM for one, for example, has enough money in the coffers for a few months business and is losing meanwhile over 2 billion dollars a month and is now looking for a bailout of 25 or 50 billion. Some posts on the Obama 44th President thread has myself and johnfás discussing it and you'll see the Breaking News that Obama wants to support the industry with a 50 billion dollar bailout. As Peter Schiff says on one of the youtubes above, if they're given money in that order then they'll just be back in six months for more.

Will Obama have the industry bailed out and then proceed to command it to produce fuel-efficient cars in the order of 150 mpg consumption or will it fail and go bankrupt and be taken over by Toyota, Nissan, or just turn to dust and disappear ? We've seen The Volt car being produced by Chevy which is a plug-in hybrid that might get 100 mpg but will that be enough to save GM ? Into the bargain, Slim Buddha on the Forex Thread perhaps thinks any deal will have implications for the dollar ?

Slim Buddha wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
Has the emphasis yet shifted now from preoccupation with finance to the performance, or lack of it, of the "real" economies? Will it shift? Japan went into recession formally today.

The auto industry's problems in the US are very real. And that is why the auto industry bailout debate will be fascinating. Here we have an industry which is largely responsible for many of its own problems. Obama is on record as saying that the Korean auto problem was killing Detroit. Korea exported 770,000 cars to the US last year. It imported only 5,000 US cars. Hidden in those numbers is the fact that 200,000 of those cars
were manufactured in Alabama. The fact is that Detroit is badly managed. A failure to invest in R&D in the 90s and since has led them to make cars for which there is a drastically shrinking market and no models coming on stream where demand is greatest.

Should these companies get a bailout? The Republicans seem set to vote against a bailout. Obama is in favour (no surprise coming from Illinois). But if Congress gives them $25 billion, when will they be back for more? Because $25 billion is nowhere near enough.

It could be an interesting one to watch now and some believe that GM going bankrupt wouldn't necessarily be the disaster it's suspected to be in terms of jobs and that there are a dozen other companies much "too bigger to fail" ( see this younglad's blog ). If Obama's Administration bails it out will he end up implementing the plans below ? If he does then will he have to have a bunch of execs fired and get in a Steve Jobs to revamp the industry like they discuss in Earth2Tech ? Obama, they say there on Earth2Tech, was not for mincing his words when telling the auto execs what their role was in their own downfall

Quote :
“Whenever an attempt was made to raise our fuel efficiency standards the auto companies would lobby against it, spending millions to prevent the very reform that could have saved their industry. Even as they shed thousands of jobs and billions in profits over the last few years, they’ve continued to reward failure, in some cases with lucrative bonuses for CEOs.”

He sounds serious - his plans are below - will he get to command GM into implemting them or will the Big Three go the way of English Auto Makers did in the past?



Quote :
The Obama-Biden comprehensive New Energy for America plan will:

* Provide short-term relief to American families facing pain at the pump
* Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.
* Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined.
* Put 1 million Plug-In Hybrid cars -- cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon -- on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America.
* Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025.
* Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:11 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Why are trains more efficient anyway? Less friction or what?


Trains are only efficient if carrying lots of people. It's the fuel per person ratio. An empty train is highly inefficient.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:15 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Why are trains more efficient anyway? Less friction or what?


Trains are only efficient if carrying lots of people. It's the fuel per person ratio. An empty train is highly inefficient.

Hence the term 'Mass Transit'.


This is clearly our best methodology for meeting our Kyoto commitments...

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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:46 pm



Just to keep up to date with the story and the facts and figures. The IHT is saying that the Auto makers account for 2% uemployment in the U.S. so that could be a huge politico-economical bruising their system will get over there. You'd also ask questions what will rush into the vacuum or if anything would rush into the vacuum... Could the world auto economy collapse into a few main players - Toyota, Nissan-Renault, The Company Formerly Known as GM ?

Three CEOs are testifying this afternoon before a Senate Banking Committee - I'll try to keep up with the story and the jargon. How long can they keep it from ending up being foreign-owned if they succeed in getting their 'loan' though ?

IHT wrote:
The failure of one or more of the Big Three automakers would put a huge initial dent in U.S. manufacturing, but in time, car companies from overseas would pick up the slack by stepping up production in their U.S. plants, many industry experts and economists say.
...
The transition to that new equilibrium would surely be painful. The big U.S. companies employ about 240,000 workers, and their suppliers an additional 2.3 million, amounting to nearly 2 percent of the nation's work force.

The outright failure of General Motors would eliminate the biggest auto employer and more than 100,000 manufacturing jobs. That is about the number of jobs already lost this year at U.S. automakers and their suppliers.

GM is rapidly running out of cash and appealing to Washington for a multibillion dollar bailout to keep operating and continue the costly conversion to a leaner company producing efficient vehicles that people will buy.
...
GM's collapse would probably bring down some of its suppliers as well. Since many of them ship parts and subassemblies to the other automakers - domestic and foreign - auto production could be crippled until the supply system was reorganized around the newly dominant foreign car makers.

"The transplants, deprived of enough suppliers, would have to rely on imported vehicles while they scramble to reorganize the supply system," McAlinden said, speaking of the foreign companies with manufacturing plants in the United States. "That would take them about a year."

Given Chrysler's weakness, the new kings of the auto industry would presumably be Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Hyundai-Kia. (Volkswagen has not yet opened a plant in the United States, and BMW and Hyundai each have one plant.)

Automakers in the United States continue to be big customers for steel, aluminum, plastics, glass, machine tools, computer chips and rubber.

"I don't think people appreciate the importance of this backward linkage to the rest of manufacturing," said Sanford Jacoby, an economic historian at the University of California, Los Angeles. "The automakers play a big role in sustaining other manufacturers."

Even in this year of plunging car sales, the automakers and their vast supplier network still account for 2.3 percent of the nation's economic output, down from 3.1 percent in 2006 and as much as 5 percent in the 1990s, according to government data. Economists say 20 percent of the shrinking manufacturing sector is still tied to the automobile industry.
More in the IHT
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:07 pm

What's going to be in that Automakers plan - we'll see next month.

Quote :
Automaker-Rescue Plan to Be Considered Next Month (Update1)

By Laura Litvan and John Hughes

Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic congressional leaders said they will delay action at least until next month on a compromise plan to help cash-strapped domestic automakers.

“The sad reality is that no one has come up with a plan that can pass the House and the Senate and be signed by the president,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said at a Washington press conference. He said automakers must submit a plan showing how they can use the funds to become viable.

Failure to bail out the Big Three automakers this year may leave General Motors Corp. facing the prospect it could run out of cash before a new Congress can come to the rescue next year.

“Unless they can show us the plan, we can’t show them the money,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said.
Bloomberg
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:39 am

Well the plan so far is that the CEOs are initiating reviews of their brands and pledge to produce energy-efficient vehicles as well as restructuring bla bla bla.

GM says it needs $12 billion loans by late March

The CEO of GM was just on Bloomberg and he's making a start he says !

Quote :
CEO Rick Wagoner will work for $1 per year and top executives will take major pay cuts. Henderson said GM would "immediately cease all corporate aircraft operations," meaning company leaders would travel by commercial aircraft.

GM said the loans could be fully repaid by 2012, but if market conditions deteriorated, the company would need more time.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:11 am

johnfás wrote:
This is clearly our best methodology for meeting our Kyoto commitments...


One of the strangest things I ever saw was pilgrims going to Mecca praying as they travelled along on the roof of one of these trains.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:14 am

Amazing picture.

Yesterday Ford announced a programme of new electric and hybrid vehicles to be manufactured with a projected turnaround by 2011.
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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:51 am

The Houses will have hearings as they pore over the plans which they'll receive presently and then contemplate a bridging loan. Pelosi says it's about viability, accountability, innovation for the future. They are too big to fail, too broke to merge - are they too bad to break up and buy ?

Bankruptcy is not an option, she says.

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PostSubject: Re: Wheels and (bailout) Deals - Vehicle News   Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:24 pm

Senator Tester quizzes the Big Three CEOs on details of the bailout, loan "whatever you wanna call it". He was interrupted earlier by jeers of "the bailout is a sellout" (I think)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie9t8hTBZNs
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