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 Wind Energy

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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed May 21, 2008 3:13 pm

so on average 5% of electricity is coming from wind today.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed May 21, 2008 6:16 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
so on average 5% of electricity is coming from wind today.

That sounds about right. I think its up to ~30% in Denmark.

I'd love to see the Eirgrid wind graphs (in Watt hours not Watts) plotted alongside National usage. That would be interesting.

We use less energy at night but the wind still blows. We use more energy during the day..
So the ratio of Eirgrid produced/ESB usage would be quite variable over 24 hours. I might try that later..
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed May 21, 2008 8:03 pm

I just asked my husband if he knew what Ireland had more of than any other country and he answered

"Wind and p***".

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed May 21, 2008 8:08 pm

peas? pigs ? pots ?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed May 21, 2008 11:43 pm

System Demand today was fairly low ~ 3000MW while wind was probably averaging around 330MW being one tenth of total demand or 10%. That's fairly good but as you say EVM it blows at night when it's not used and I imagine the power plants we have can respond by switching themselves down depending on power. I doubt if a power station would respond if I or you switches off a light or uses energy saving bulbs but over a certain quantity of wind production coming online at night when everyone switches their lights off say 20-30 MW surely big power stations can turn themselves down by that much?



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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 1:22 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
So the ratio of Eirgrid produced/ESB usage would be quite variable over 24 hours. I might try that later..
This is neat from the Spanish electricity site. The main and green graphs are the fraction of the wind power currently getting generated out of the max; the yellow graph on top is the wind generated currently as a fraction of the total demand (~6%). These graphs change over time of course depending on the wind blowing and quantity of windmills installed, which should be increasing.

http://www.ree.es/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 12:06 pm

Deadly graphs altogether Audi. I love the usage one. You can nearly see all those kettles and panini makers being switched on and off.

Interesting to note that even at 3AM when we're all asleep, the usage is still 2000MW or 50% of the peak usage at 17:30 when we're all awake and cooking spuds.

What explains such a massive usage at 3AM ?
Industry, public lighting and services... ?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 12:29 pm

Yeah, Tescos, Airports, ports, Servers (1.5% of US electricity) PS3s ... When it gets to the stage where that 50% at night goes towards 100% and then over (it's likely to do that in Ireland eventually) I wonder will power plants just ease off to virtually switch off altogether or will we start using the excess to produced hydrogen which is transportable and storable energy? Recently alloys other than ones with platinum have made it more economical to split water using electricity ...

However, maybe that's a far way off as according to Treehugger, the cost of producing wind turbines themselves has risen dramatically recently

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/05/wind-turbine-costs-increased-offshore-power.php
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 2:04 pm

Don't forget that Turlough Hill will be pumping water uphill at 3AM instead of generating..
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 3:00 pm

I keep forgetting about Turlough Hill ... I'm going to make it my business to drive there one day and photograph it and interview everyone from the CEO to the janitor. I can do that now that I've just half-serviced my car - can't get the oil filter out for the life of me and can't find the air filter either but the main oily part and the plugs are done. Must go to the mechanic I use to pull out the air filter - he looks like Bruce Springsteen as it happens only younger ...
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 3:53 pm

Were you trying to get the oil filter off by hand ?

They can get quite stuck. You can try a chain wrench or what some people do (including me at times) is to drive a screwdriver straight through it near the bottom, and use the screwdriver as a turning handle. But have a tray to catch the oil either way.

I've no idea why you can't find the air filter.

**************

To put the demand in an annual context, eirgrid also give us this nice graph..

Annual Usage by Week

Significant difference between mid-winter and mid-summer.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu May 22, 2008 6:15 pm

Transmission Systems Operators

Austria Verbund APG http://www.verbund.at/

Austria TIWAG http://www.tiwag-netz.at/

Austria VKW http://www.vkw-netz.at/

Bosnia and Herzegovina ISO BIH http://www.nosbih.ba/

Belgium Elia http://www.elia.be/

Switzerland Swissgrid http://www.swissgrid.ch/

Cyprus DSM http://www.dsm.org.cy/

Czeck Republic CEPS http://www.ceps.cz/

Germany ENBW http://www.enbw.com/

Germany EON http://www.eon-energie.com/

Germany RWE http://www.rwe.com/

Germany VET http://www.vattenfall.de/

Estonia OYPohivork http://www.energia.ee/

Spain REE http://www.ree.es/

France RTE http://www.rte-france.com/

Greece HTSO http://www.desmie.gr/

Hungary Mavir http://www.mavir.hu/

Ireland EirGrid http://www.eirgrid.com/

Italy Terna http://www.eirgrid.com/

Lithuania Leituvos Energija http://www.lpc.lt/

Latvia Augstprieguma Tikls http://www.latvenergo.lv/

The Netherland TenneT http://www.tennet.nl/

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark Nordpool http://www.nordpool.com/

Denmark Energinet.dk http://www.energinet.dk/

Fingrid Finland http://www.fingrid.fi/

Statnett Norway http://www.statnett.no/

Svenska Sweden http://www.svk.se/

Poland PSE http://www.pse-operator.pl/

Portugal REN http://www.ren.pt/

Serbia EMS http://www.ems.co.yu/

Slovenia ELES http://www.eles.si/

Slovakia SEPS http://www.sepsas.sk/

United Kindgdom National Grid http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am

Ooohhh the Danes have a posh realtime website.

http://www.energinet.dk/en/menu/Frontpage.htm#

And click on the map of Denmark in top RH corner...cool
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 4:25 pm

so when did the start to build the first windfarm, er 97 ish 5% in ten years ain't bad?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 9:15 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Ooohhh the Danes have a posh realtime website.

http://www.energinet.dk/en/menu/Frontpage.htm#

And click on the map of Denmark in top RH corner...cool
Very neat indeed. I couldn't see a nice graph on just their wind though... pity.

lostexpectation wrote:
so when did the start to build the first windfarm, er 97 ish 5% in ten years ain't bad?
The Bellacorick Wind Farm in North County Mayo was the first one in 1992.

Quote :
Bord na Móna Energy Limited is the majority (88.5%) shareholder in Renewable
Energy Ireland Ltd., which established Ireland's first commercial windfarm on
cutaway blanket bog at Bellacorick, Co. Mayo in 1992. The windfarm comprises
21 wind turbines, with a total installed capacity of 6.45 MW. The mean annual
wind speed at a height of 30 metres is 7.28 m/sec. The windfarm generates 17
million units (kWh) of electricity each year, and has an average availability
of 98%.

The Bellacorick area is remote, with a flat, open aspect. The availability of
substantial additional areas of cutaway blanket bog, along with a 110 kV link
to the adjacent thermal power station, mean that the capacity of the windfarm
could be expanded considerably. Bord na Móna Energy Limited is seeking consent
to increase the number of wind turbines on the site. Environmental benefits
include the generation of electricity without the release of any CO2, SO2, NOx
or dust.
http://www.bnm.ie/energy/index.jsp?pID=305&nID=309


And then in January 2004, this report:


Quote :
EUROPE’S biggest on-shore wind energy farm will soon be built in Co Mayo.The 300 million wind farm at Bellacorick, which will provide power to homes in the region for 20 years, has been given the green light by An Bord Pleanála.

The plant is being developed by Bord na Móna and the ESB subsidiary, Hibernian Wind Energy (HWE).

HWE spokesperson Dave O'Connor yesterday said the plant is a major advance for natural energy here.

"It is a very significant project in the context of wind energy in Ireland," he said.

The turbines will be built on a 12,000-acre site and will be able to power 200,000 homes. More than 20 full-time jobs are expected to be created at the plant.

The wind farm was first granted planning permission by Mayo County Council last July but it was appealed by locals to Bord Pleanála.

The number of wind turbines on the site has been cut to 180, from the planned 210, following the appeal.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2004/01/08/story889793115.asp

The most recent bit of news on this is below on the 'HWE' site - now Hibernian Wind Power or always was and the above is a typo. Lots of Megawattage coming on line in the next few years if all goes to plan.


http://www.hibernianwindpower.ie/default.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 9:18 pm

is windpower industrialising rural areas by the backdoor, not to say farming ain't industrial?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 9:19 pm

ah a windfarm at carnsore...
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 10:45 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
is windpower industrialising rural areas by the backdoor, not to say farming ain't industrial?
The farms have minimal environmental impact if they are sensitively erected - landslides, forest-levelling and animals as well as visual impact should all be taken into account. I've driven by the one in Lissycasey, near Ennis in Clare recently and it's quite beautiful I think- there is a group water scheme nearby so the turbines are near a small inland lake on nice and colourful bog up in an elevated part of the county so there are lovely views nearby to enjoy as well. I rarely think the turbines destroy the visual scenery and generally enhance it.

Now, I wouldn't call them strictly industrial because very few people work on them after they've been installed; their negative aspects are usually outweighed by their beneficial effects - virtually free local power, often sprucing up an otherwise desolate part of the countryside in my opinion and utilising an element which down here can be an extremely annoying entity, thus the wind farms are a finger at the wind in a mark of defiant pillaging.

If you ever visit Kerry there is a windfarm between Tarbert and Tralee there which I find a bit ugly however - there really is too many of them. Another farm near Gort, Galway is the same - they were installed without any visual coherence but that is easily remedied, simply cluster them in groups or line them up as the ones in Bellacorick are. A rash of them across a hillside can look industrial alright and proper attention should be paid to their aesthetics once all the other bits and pieces are okay (Hen Harriers and landslides and shadow-watchers and blade listeners and oilmen suddenly popping out of the woodwork as a farm gets proposed - once all these are satisfied)

The people I've spoken to in the back o beyond are quite happy with the ones existing near them, however (especially the people getting 12k a year per machine for putting up with one on their land Wink ) and inversely to the hoo-hah before a wind farm gets set up, are of the opinion that they are majestic objects which enhance an otherwise barren landscape.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 10:56 pm

righ, i don't mind them visually but do they industrialise the area?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 23, 2008 11:44 pm

Way to go Auditor. Buy a remote hill or two and clean up
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Sat May 24, 2008 12:40 am

lostexpectation wrote:
righ, i don't mind them visually but do they industrialise the area?
What do you mean by industrialise? And who is 'they' - the windmills or the people who put them up? It's just 14 turbines in a bog, nothing else.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 30, 2008 5:55 pm



Less that 20MW today.
You couldn't fire up a toaster on that.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 30, 2008 8:56 pm

But the solar is chugging away nicely sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 30, 2008 9:02 pm

Are these graphs a measurement of the potential energy available from the wind or are they a measurement of the energy being generated from the mills that are in operation at the moment.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri May 30, 2008 9:18 pm

youngdan wrote:
Are these graphs a measurement of the potential energy available from the wind or are they a measurement of the energy being generated from the mills that are in operation at the moment.

YD, the graphs are the total generated power from all the mills that are monitored in the country, about 90% of them I think.

As you can see, it's not very windy today, but as Cactus says, It's Sunny. So Beer and BBQ it is !
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