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 Wind Energy

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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:19 pm

$10,000 is a totally insane price for that thing. These renewable energy companies seem to be operating with a rip-off mentality.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:07 pm

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
$10,000 is a totally insane price for that thing. These renewable energy companies seem to be operating with a rip-off mentality.

That's bubbly investment-cycle stuff isn't it ? A frenzy starts from a something milder and then an industry rises on top of investment and then it's self-fuelled bubble for a while - STEP RIGHT UP. It's getting to the point where medium-sized towns will be able to buy small nuclear reactors. Want to chip in and move to Cloughjordan ?

I wonder will system demand for electricity fall with the recesssion ? I could start a thread on it. Here's system demand so far for today



The wind has looked good against it over the past three or four few days - up around 600 MW which is a good fraction of the daily demand averaged over day and night. Every small bit of electricity helps surely. As one fella from Iceland on TV was saying about the hot springs in Iceland generating 10% of power, Iceland gets energy one year in ten FOR FREE. It's worth remembering that the capacity factor of turbines is around 40% so if we had the equivalent system demand in turbines then we'd have four out of ten years worth of electricity produced at home - no imports of fossils.


Eirgrid
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:11 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:

I wonder will system demand for electricity fall with the recesssion ? I could start a thread on it. Here's system demand so far for today

Global demand surely will what with a reduction in industrial output and that. However, I would have thought the vast majority of electricity consumed in Ireland is domestic, more so than most countries owing to there being less heavy industry, so I can't see Ireland's demand falling that much. Recession or no recession we need to heat and light our houses and most people aren't going to stop watching television or boiling the kettle. A reduction in petrol consumed seems more likely to me on the domestic front.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:34 pm

Some good figures on wind energy, although starting from a low base.

12/11/2008 - 12:09:23
Ireland's use of renewable energy is growing by almost 20% a year.

A report from Sustainable Energy Ireland shows our use of renewables doubled over the four years to 2007.

As a result of a 12% increase last year, 2.1 million tonnes of CO2 emissions were avoided.

Half of last year's renewable energy contribution came from wind energy.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:52 pm

Are decent batteries finally here which can be used to collect wind power ?


NaS battery pack

Some lads over in the States in Minnesota have rigged up a massive 80-ton battery which is the size of two tractor trailiers according to Ecogeek. The batteries can store enough charge for 500 homes for seven hours. How long does it take to charge those batteries though and are they themselves friendly to the world ?

The company which makes them, NGK in Japan, say on their site that the batteries can last for upto 15 years and produce no gas or noise pollution. These NAS (Sodium Sulfide) batteries can operate at high efficiency according to the NGK site because internal resistance contributes perfectly to the heat required to have the battery operate at its optimal. That temperature is 300 degrees centrigrade yeah right

If they work though and are affordable then whole communities could be chipping in to power themselves - maybe the likes of the lads in Cloughjordan have enough funds to get their hands on one of them things.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:13 am

I'm still waiting to hear Mr. Ryan's reply on the energy plan for Ireland. After hearing about Ciaran Cuffe's ordeal by car park, my hopes are dwindling fast.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:29 am

"Manhattan Project for Maine" - Massive 5 GW (Ireland's total demand)

Quote :
If T. Boone Pickens has decided the capital markets can’t fund his plan for a 4 GW wind farm right now, we’re wondering how a group called the Ocean Energy Institute plans to build one of the world’s largest wind farm — made up of 5GW of floating turbines — off the Gulf of Maine. This week the International Herald Tribune took a look at the Ocean Energy Institute and its plan to use funds “from major corporations and foundations” to build five 9.2-square-mile offshore wind farms in the Gulf of Maine starting in 5-7 years with full deployment in 10 years.
..
Dubbing the plan a “Manhattan Project for Maine,” the Ocean Energy Institute says it could create some 20,000-30,000 jobs.
http://earth2tech.com/2008/11/28/massive-gulf-of-maine-wind-farm-proposed/


The start of the ... ?

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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:35 pm

Wind Stocks

The Bloomberg Wind Energy Index. Went to 1100 in June but is now down to around 500 - that's not as bad a % fall as other indices like the ISEQ ..



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=BWIND:IND
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:34 am

Auditor #9 wrote:


I wonder will system demand for electricity fall with the recesssion ? I could start a thread on it. Here's system demand so far for today

Yes, as the level of economic activity contracts, so too does the concomitant electricity consumption. Offices need light, sites need generators, factories need heat and so on. However, the effect should be largely minimal as the shrinkage in the economy should be approximately 5% over 2008 and 2009 with a 2% contraction possible for both years in terms of GDP. That would lead to only a marginal drop in electricity consumption and the fundamental decline may be masked by seasonal factors throughout the year.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:14 pm

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhidididcwql/

They're doing an Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA) up North, for off shore wind energy. That will look at impacts of an increase and allow applications for permission to be assessed.

Did anyone here a guy from "Friends of the Earth" Oisin someone? yesterday saying that Government is in an EU committee today trying to argue down the planned level of renewable energy? Where are the Green Party on this?

Does anyone know if it is true?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:00 am

cactus flower wrote:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhidididcwql/

They're doing an Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA) up North, for off shore wind energy. That will look at impacts of an increase and allow applications for permission to be assessed.

Did anyone here a guy from "Friends of the Earth" Oisin someone? yesterday saying that Government is in an EU committee today trying to argue down the planned level of renewable energy? Where are the Green Party on this?

Does anyone know if it is true?

Sorry, I don't anyway. Which would be unfortunate in case wind technology developed and we didn't buy it. The yoke below is one of the latest in designs applied to turbines. I've a feeling the concept could also be applied to the undersea tidal machines we've seen here.

Jet engine technology comes to the wind turbine

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2337/86/

Some crowd in Massachussets called "FloDesign" has invented a way of capturing more of the wind that normally passes over the turbine blades of conventional windmills. This thing funnels the wind into and around itself like a jet engine. I guess it uses some energy itself in focusing the wind that is normally deflected but then again it is a much smaller device than the lovely monstrosities we see around the place.

It makes sense for tidal turbines too - water will displace itself around a blade but if forced to go through a tunnel by virtue of design then surely more power can be wrung out of the moving stream of water.


Reproduced with permission from Ecogeek

The thing in action

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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:33 am

Class video there Audi. Superb imagery and audio.

I like that turbine.

How close does it come to Bett's Law limit ?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:47 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Class video there Audi. Superb imagery and audio.

I like that turbine.

How close does it come to Bett's Law limit ?

Bett's-

I'm not going to google that now. What's Bett's Law Limit ? Too much wind in the inside and it gets in its own way ?

Do you think it'll work ?
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:00 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
EvotingMachine0197 wrote:
Class video there Audi. Superb imagery and audio.

I like that turbine.

How close does it come to Bett's Law limit ?

Bett's-

I'm not going to google that now. What's Bett's Law Limit ? Too much wind in the inside and it gets in its own way ?

Do you think it'll work ?

Well they seem to think it will work and I can't think of any reason why not.

Bett's Law says there is a maximum energy you can get out of the wind in a given area. In essence, if you try to take out too much energy, you end up stopping the wind flow, and energy production falls off.

I think the theoretical max is about 65%.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:04 am

Oil is trading well below 50 dollars a barrel now and that has severely dented the economic viability of future wind energy projects. I expect that this sector will see a huge drop in interest over these next few months, particularly in an era with depressed liquidity levels.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:26 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Oil is trading well below 50 dollars a barrel now and that has severely dented the economic viability of future wind energy projects. I expect that this sector will see a huge drop in interest over these next few months, particularly in an era with depressed liquidity levels.

I think expat girl was making that point earlier on the ISEQ thread. Also tonys made some good points.

I have to agree that if oil prices continue to fall, a lot of SE projects will be deprived of venture capital and that would be a planetary setback.

Unfortunately, our capital providers, just like our governments, are short termists.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:33 am

The US has launched a recovery plan that includes a lot of renewable energy development. Ford Motors have just put out a recovery plan that involves new lines of electric cars. Perhaps if money is being spent purely as a pump primer for the economy, it might as well be spent on renewables, no matter whether it is viable or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:47 am

EvotingMachine0197 wrote:

Unfortunately, our capital providers, just like our governments, are short termists.

That is Unfortunate as the price could swing the other way just as quickly. All it needs is a fear that there is shortage, not necessarily real, imaginary will do the trick nicely.

CF

In a world with a rising population and security of oil supply dubious it is a better way to spend money than some I have recently seen .
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:36 am

Quote :

Syndicate invests €100m to create massive wind farm


http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/syndicate-invests-8364100m-to-create-massive-wind-farm-1561047.html

A fund of €100m worth of finance is being invested into one of Ireland's largest renewable energy projects to date.

The consortium is providing the long-term finance for the construction of a 57-megawatt (MW) stand-alone wind energy site, which will be the largest ever such site built in Ireland.

The capital is coming from a private equity group led by Ulster Bank, made up of a syndicate of domestic and foreign lenders. The investment was put together over the past four months, despite the volatile capital market climate.

The project is expected to generate enough to supply the electricity needs of 30,000 Irish households annually. It will be located at Boggeragh Mountain in Co Cork. The company behind the wind farm is the Green Energy Company. Renewable energy developer Wind Prospect has been appointed project manager.

Scandinavian wind energy operator Vestas Wind Systems will supply 19 turbines in 2009 and management services at the site.

- Roisin Burke
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:04 pm

The Economist has an article this week on wind. They say there was 97 GW world wind installation at the end of 2007 - that's just over twice the consumption of the UK. That capacity will triple to 290 GW by 2012 they say. Japan is absent from the graphic below, however.


Economist

****************************************************************************************************************************************

And this should be a part of it - a massive off-shore windfarm in Wales.


http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2368/
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:12 pm

Sunday Business Post this morning :

Quote :
A pioneer of wind energy in Ireland has called on the energy regulator to waive current restrictions on selling power to the national grid.

He said that, under the current system, any energy producer that delivered more than 500kWcould have to wait for up to five years before being cleared by the Commission for Energy Regulation’s (CER) ‘group processing approach’, which permits sale of excess electricity to the grid.
Energy expert calls for national grid restrictions to be lifted

Now why would a company have to wait five bloody years before they can produce their own electricity if they want to produce more than the half Megawatt ? Granted it's on the scale of a mini power-station and would compete with the impoverished ESB, God love them, but five years ? What the hell do these regulators really feckin do ??

This is one for Eamon Ryan to get sorted - it could mean massive warehouses and factories being allowed to generate their own electricity from the roots or even putting in small windfarms or other. Fair enough if they wanted to put in small nuclear reactor but five years ..
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:08 am

Wind-generated electricity at record levels today - around one fifth of the demand. It's been generating at around 800MW since 9 this morning too....

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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:59 pm

10 Small-Scale Wind Turbines Cut NYC Apartment Building’s Electric Costs in Half



An affordable housing project in the South Bronx is looking to wind turbines to make living there even more affordable. Blue Sea Development Company is installing 10, one-kilowatt turbines on the roof of their newest apartment building, which will lead to significant savings in energy costs.

The turbines, from AeroVironment, will power the five-story building's hallways, elevators and common spaces. Best of all, the development company claims the turbines will cut the building's common electricity costs in half, from $18,000 annually to $9,000 annually.

The building's residents will still power their apartments the old-fashioned way, through Con Edison, but the savings in energy costs are allowing the building owners to set the rent at below-market prices. A nice incentive for renters in this economy.

This project could go a long way in proving the potential of wind power in an urban setting. So far, wind turbines and cities have seemed mutually exclusive (there are definite drawbacks), but with such a promising return in energy savings, it's time to reconsider the possibilities.

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2433/
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/small-scale-wind-turbines-cut-apartment-building-electricity-bill-in-half.php
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:28 pm

From 'Down the Country' Indymedia news



Nice photomontage of the turbines overlooking a lake, pity they think they're aesthetically unpleasing. I'd say some of them think they're gorgeous but they'll be silenced.

And yeah, the use of the Joni lyrics - you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone could be applied to COAL and OIL

http://www.noeastclarewindfarm.net/
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PostSubject: Re: Wind Energy   Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:37 pm

http://www.airtricity.com/ireland/media_center/press_releases/list_all/





Up and down although it feels more up than down around here at the moment.
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