The ISEQ Thread Part II - Trading below 2000

Audi

I would also prefer copper and lead over silver and gold.

With regards food, spent much of the last month in Argentina. Plenty of scope for increasing food production there, but if fuel and thus transport costs increase what is the long term viability? Also Patagonia is a natural for wind generators, but would you want to invest more in that country? Just how stable is it and several countries would be interested in fuelling division.

Here is an interesting link.
http://www.euroinvestor.co.uk/Stock/Index_International.aspx

Useful for comparing the differential falls in share prices across the globe. It shows the scale of the decline, but interesting to note that whilst many have dropped 50% or more in the last year others are bouncing around at about 30% decline. Chile seems to be exceptionally blessed with a mere 19% fall?!!**! Not many match the ISEQ.

Squire wrote:

Audi

I would also prefer copper and lead over silver and gold.

With regards food, spent much of the last month in Argentina. Plenty of scope for increasing food production there, but if fuel and thus transport costs increase what is the long term viability? Also Patagonia is a natural for wind generators, but would you want to invest more in that country? Just how stable is it and several countries would be interested in fuelling division.

Here is an interesting link.
http://www.euroinvestor.co.uk/Stock/Index_International.aspx

Useful for comparing the differential falls in share prices across the globe. It shows the scale of the decline, but interesting to note that whilst many have dropped 50% or more in the last year others are bouncing around at about 30% decline. Chile seems to be exceptionally blessed with a mere 19% fall?!!**! Not many match the ISEQ.

That would be the copper?

CF

Indeed about 1/3 world copper production and a country where the government is in surplus. Also favorable demographics and the economy is still growing. However the price of copper has fallen and all sorts of other problems like cuts in natural gas supplies from Argentina due to need to supply Argentinian domestic needs.

I think they will follow the rest down.

30-35% of world's copper being is consumed by China. Will that grow in the future ? They're saying on Bloomberg now that energy stocks are low enough to invest in. They didn't give any companies other than Xstrata (?)

Is the ISEQ so fecked because we have no native energy ?

Squire wrote:

CF

Indeed about 1/3 world copper production and a country where the government is in surplus. Also favorable demographics and the economy is still growing. However the price of copper has fallen and all sorts of other problems like cuts in natural gas supplies from Argentina due to need to supply Argentinian domestic needs.

I think they will follow the rest down.

A lovely country, and I think able to grow its own food and wine - and a very long coast line.

Auditor #9 wrote:

Is the ISEQ so fecked because we have no native energy ?

IMO It is firstly the uncertainty surrounding the Banks and financial sector and secondly an over reliance on overseas investment.

Investment in energy production needs to be part of the way out of this mess. If we don't become self sufficient in energy fast we are sunk. I am not sure what we do about copper but I have seen plastics replace copper pipe in many locations. Wonder if there are alternative materials for wiring?

ISEQ Financials back down today, and the Euro is now worth 83P. It will be a busy Christmas in Newry.

Retail price index going negative in the UK, that has not happened since 1960. Means everyone should be able to work for less?

Squire wrote:

Auditor #9 wrote:

Is the ISEQ so fecked because we have no native energy ?

IMO It is firstly the uncertainty surrounding the Banks and financial sector and secondly an over reliance on overseas investment.

Investment in energy production needs to be part of the way out of this mess. If we don't become self sufficient in energy fast we are sunk. I am not sure what we do about copper but I have seen plastics replace copper pipe in many locations. Wonder if there are alternative materials for wiring?

Auditor posted an amazing device on another thread that enabled lights to be switched on without a copper circuit. It had a tiny generator in it, powered by flicking a switch.

cactus flower wrote:

Auditor posted an amazing device on another thread that enabled lights to be switched on without a copper circuit. It had a tiny generator in it, powered by flicking a switch.

Saw it, was very interesting. Also saw a prototype of a house with intelligent lights and fittings controlled by a wireless network. Visions of system crashes whilst in the middle of a shower at 1am.

There must be materials other than copper that can be used for wiring. There is a serious amount of of wiring in building. Burglar alarms, fire alarms, intercoms, computer networks, power and light circuits.

Quote :

There must be materials other than copper that can be used for wiring. There is a serious amount of of wiring in building. Burglar alarms, fire alarms, intercoms, computer networks, power and light circuits.

Maybe other substances aren't as conductive as copper though ?


http://www.parsonscorp.com/issues/Parsons%203-7/5.htm

Squire wrote:

Retail price index going negative in the UK, that has not happened since 1960. Means everyone should be able to work for less?

Inflation, which for so long was a bugbear of world economies, is fast in retreat. The Economist's poll of forecasters slashed their outlooks on inflation in almost all of the countries surveyed.

Sterling weakening further (0.83 now) is going to send even more people northbound to do Christmas shopping which will... to an extent... hit VAT again. Suits me, I'm in London next week and I already know what I am getting the girlfriend for Christmas, it is getting cheaper by the day .

Ard-Taoiseach

With falling retail price index perhaps time to renegotiate wages down, reduce benefits and reduce the minimum wage! We could also insist on a reduction in the salaries of TDs

johnfás

I am equally delighted with the fall in sterling as I hold options to purchase dollars at 1.99 and 2.28 to the pound.

Audi

I have never tried Aluminum wiring. I would imagine that you would need thicker wires or it may overheat. Silver is a good conductor of electricity!

Ductility is also an important property for wiring. You would think that by now there would be some man made fibers that would do the job?

Squire wrote:

Audi

I have never tried Aluminum wiring. I would imagine that you would need thicker wires or it may overheat. Silver is a good conductor of electricity!

Ductility is also an important property for wiring. You would think that by now there would be some man made fibers that would do the job?

I haven't tried it yet either ... in fact I didn't know it existed up until that post I posted with the alum wiring. In fact i've never even thought about an alternative before, maybe because my father used to have a whole heap of bits and pieces of copper pipes and tanks lying around his back garden. Bits and pieces always littered the Hiace too... I have thought about wireless electricity though - didn't Tesla have some ideas of beaming it through the air ? The mad hoor - that would be fun inside an internet cafe.

On manufacturing it .. what tf is electricity anyway !? I asked our boys this before ibis and EVM and they went to some pains to explain it to me. Isn't it free electrons in atoms getting pushed around (DC) or nudging each other and producing force (AC) ? Does current equate to the number of electrons doing this all at once ?

In the end it's probably the case that copper is plentiful and we don't really need to think about the above. No wonder it's so cheap.

Squire wrote:

Ard-Taoiseach

With falling retail price index perhaps time to renegotiate wages down, reduce benefits and reduce the minimum wage! We could also insist on a reduction in the salaries of TDs

johnfás

I am equally delighted with the fall in sterling as I hold options to purchase dollars at 1.99 and 2.28 to the pound.

Audi

I have never tried Aluminum wiring. I would imagine that you would need thicker wires or it may overheat. Silver is a good conductor of electricity!

Ductility is also an important property for wiring. You would think that by now there would be some man made fibers that would do the job?

Is the future not wire - less ?

It is funny how little one thinks of their reliance on things like copper...

It's probably abundant enough or easily recycled and plentiful as it's priced at only $1.80 a pound. There will potentially be a ceiling on electricity consumption as technology gets smaller and more efficient too. Again the production of electricty is based on fossil fuel mostly but even if we had a magic source of power there are only a certain number of connections needed (in a house for example) to deliver the power you'd need. How many computers can one person have ?

There must be a saturation point.

cactus flower wrote:

Is the future not wire - less ?

For electricity, probably not. Radio waves, micro waves yes.

cactus flower wrote:

Is the future not wire - less ?

I am less than sure about that, you need to get the power into the building and distribute it. Also my experience with wireless computer networks would lead me to believe that wireless leaves a lot to be desired. Wireless phones are a good case in point. Sit behind a metal filing cupboard and no signal!

Unless you have bought wiring for a building you don't realise just how much of it is used. There are kilometres of it in Squire Hall.


Most of Asia is down 4%-5%. Be interesting to see how Europe opens.

Not sure why but state side all indices back up 6- 7% so perhaps the week will end on the up?

ISEQ financials took a pounding today. No dividends this or next year for Bank of Ireland whose pre-tax profits fell 32 per cent to €650 million for the six months to the end of September. Shares in the bank have fallen 87 per cent this year.

Irish life and Perm fell 15% to 1.61 and not as in the link below.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aJ6sLsUoQakI&refer=europe

The ISEQ is trading penny sweets at the moment - BOI's Brian Goggin is adamant that it's not a solvency problem but liquidity.

Here's a guy talking about the American Long Bond - 10 year - which had a bad auction the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFsA_Qg6C3c

On the Pin they're on about the Dow potentially getting an aritificial stimulus yesterday and currencies flailing around in response
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15525

Rioting workers in China who get hammered by the riot police for demanding two months back-pay - production is falling dramatically there and there's a nasty effect of it.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/14/asia/14china.php

And Alex Jones is still banging on about the NWO and deleting my comments on his channel where I'm telling him that his country is too fat (they emit 22% of world CO2 - but maybe that statistic was invented by the Rothschilds who also create thousands of fake photos of large american houses, people and cars)

Good morning!

Jaysus, the euro is now 85.5 pence stg. How do I get to Belfast ?

It was at over 86 pence stg at one stage yesterday. I'm over in London next week, think I'll go on a shopping spree .

Audi

Thanks for the links.

I couldn't make any rational conclusions about yesterdays up turn. Once governments get involved what hope for any of us to comprehend the day to day. On the longer haul looks bad because no one has a clue what to do and there is precious little leadership and common purpose.

China is in serious bother, factories are closing quicker than the unemployment figures here are increasing. You are not going to get a clear picture out of that country for some time due to the denial - loss of face problem.

Basically the idea that you could base the world economy on western consumption was a complete nonsense. It is sad because I truely believe that there is masses of REAL work to be done around the globe. There is NO shortage of work, but what there is is a strangle hold on the finance and control of resources.

I was in Argentina recently, everywhere you look you can see opportunity for improvement yet there is an unemployment rate of 9%-10%. This is insane. This is a country that is rich in resources and a diversity of climates and agriculture. It could easily become an exporter of renewable energy and do more to help feed the world.

I have an invite to Algeria. I don't know if you have ever been in the desert but two observations, masses of land surface receiving high levels of sunlight and little cloud cover. Also I once built a small desalination plant for an elderly relative in coastal Western Sahara and with a bit of H2O it is surprising what will grow. Yet in the countries surrounding the Sahara we have dire poverty, unemployment and famine.

Look across Europe, or any country lots to do and potential for improvement.

Yet here we are worrying if factories that produce flip flops remain in production and if others can borrow to buy them. To my mind this is utterly wrong and misses the real opportunities and needs.

ISEQ financials when down fast by about 7% showing slight recovery now. Anglo Irish went down 27%. You would be a brave man to invest there. This fall has a bit to run yet and I can't see a recovery ahead of the main markets.

EVM

Looks like boom times for Northern retail. Newry as a boom town seems unimaginable. Low sterling will hit UK citizens living abroad, will hit property particularly in Spain and France and mean less foreign holidays. From an Irish point of view a greater percentage of manufactured goods, say building industry related will come through the North and their tourist business will continue to grow. I read somewhere that it increased by 60% in the last 2 years. Even if this is from a low base that is an astounding figure. Something I meant to look into, was it day trips from Dublin or longer stay? There are quite a few hotels being build in Belfast. Weak sterling is very bad news for Ireland, M. King made it very clear that he intends to reduce interest rates as low as is necessary!

Squire wrote:

China is in serious bother, factories are closing quicker than the unemployment figures here are increasing. You are not going to get a clear picture out of that country for some time due to the denial - loss of face problem.

Basically the idea that you could base the world economy on western consumption was a complete nonsense. It is sad because I truely believe that there is masses of REAL work to be done around the globe. There is NO shortage of work, but what there is is a strangle hold on the finance and control of resources.
...
Looks like boom times for Northern retail. Newry as a boom town seems unimaginable. Low sterling will hit UK citizens living abroad ...

Another link in the IHT was that Argentinia bikini manufacturing was feeling the squeeze too - nothing's moving there apparently, maybe there is a sudden culture of nudism sweeping Argentina ? http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/13/america/13argentina.php

You never said a truer word with regards to real work to be done around the world - this is the most exasperating thing about political economic news. The news yesterday here said the EPA maintained our rivers and other water systems were 29% polluted and I keep thinking it's that kind of project that countries need to take on board - cleaning up their backyards.

Apparently the IMF leave Argentina alone about their high unemployment - so Stiglitz says in one of his books. It shouldn't be a problem if there's no social unrest, low poverty, low inflation etc. I think the world will have to face up to the fact of high unemployment in future anyway - if not this generation certainly in the next because there is undoubtedly a limit to production and a saturation point. This is unless you choose to 'qualitise' your economy and society which means overturning stones to shine lights into dark corners of education and energy poverty/inefficiency, addressing ecological damage such as pouring sewage into Loughs Foyle and Swilly in Donegal ... encouraging exercise and good living and suchlike but these things would need to be done on a co-ordinated footing on an internation basis which would sound good to me but there would be unrest in the streets because some would suspect it was a NWO.

People in Iceland have taken to the streets in protest at their government not taking an IMF loan of 6 billion which has strings attached to it of 18% interest. It looks like some people will protest if the NWO doesn't come in.


edit

And on Sterling - I think it's great that STG hasn't joined the Euro yet - the world needs little flows of activity like is happening now with people going up north. Thinking of doing it myself for Christmas - where's the nearest good shopping town to Clare ? Derry ?

Why not fly over to London? You can go to London return from Shannon in December for €12 all inclusive. You can do the same to Edinburgh if you want a more manageable city... but I do always find Edinburgh very expensive... suppose if you are shopping in the high street stores it is the same price everywhere. Newcastle would be another good option, there is an enormous shopping centre at Gateshead, the Metro Centre.