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 'A good day to bury bad news'

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PostSubject: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:41 am

The government is to meet today with the Financial Regulators to discuss the role they shoud be playing in regulating the banks in future. An editorial in today's Irish Examiner says:

Quote :
If you think access to information unimportant, if you imagine that its release is random, consider this. This morning, as the focus of more or less every conscious person in the country is on the budget, senior officials from the Financial Regulator’s office will appear before the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs at noon to discuss the role of the regulator. They may even discuss that office’s role in overseeing the banks. Ordinarily this event would get top billing but it may just be superseded today.

Coincidence or, as a former press officer in Tony Blair’s government infamously said of 9/11... “a good day to bury bad news ...


You decide.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:04 am

Of course they'll bury it - aren't folks in the Department of Finance liable as well? The Regulator is linked in some way to the Department of Finance surely to God - he reports to them, he makes recommendations, laws and controls should emerge from his advice. There was a case on Pat Kenny yesterday of sub-prime lending where a lady was paying 10% on a mortgage for a home renovation. The arrears of the loan - after default - had started to accumulate at the rate of 75 euro a day ... her mortgage initially was 1600 but rocketed to 2300 ... she was earning 1000 and her husband 2000 ... The arrears was tacked on irresponsibly by the lender and really should have been under control by the regulator.

I'm sure she's not alone. It'll take a few suicides from this type of thing before something happens on a public way. Then the media will be blamed for making a circus out of it the way they were when those cancer mis-diagnosis cases where when they used the media to highlight the failings in the health system.

But there were no cases of sub-prime lending here ... supposebly.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:29 am

Of course there were cases of subprime lending. I know a situation of a lady who is now 82 who was 3 years ago given a mortgage (aged 79) for 20 years. She got herself into such a situation she was eventually made a ward of courts.

It was however, not as widespread as in the USA.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:38 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Of course they'll bury it - aren't folks in the Department of Finance liable as well? The Regulator is linked in some way to the Department of Finance surely to God - he reports to them, he makes recommendations, laws and controls should emerge from his advice. There was a case on Pat Kenny yesterday of sub-prime lending where a lady was paying 10% on a mortgage for a home renovation. The arrears of the loan - after default - had started to accumulate at the rate of 75 euro a day ... her mortgage initially was 1600 but rocketed to 2300 ... she was earning 1000 and her husband 2000 ... The arrears was tacked on irresponsibly by the lender and really should have been under control by the regulator.

I'm sure she's not alone. It'll take a few suicides from this type of thing before something happens on a public way. Then the media will be blamed for making a circus out of it the way they were when those cancer mis-diagnosis cases where when they used the media to highlight the failings in the health system.

But there were no cases of sub-prime lending here ... supposebly.

the regulator is staffed by ex banking supervision division people from central bank of ireland and staff on secondment from the dept of finance. i think they started recruiting directly about a year or two ago but think they are in the minority.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:49 pm

johnfás wrote:
Of course there were cases of subprime lending. I know a situation of a lady who is now 82 who was 3 years ago given a mortgage (aged 79) for 20 years. She got herself into such a situation she was eventually made a ward of courts.

It was however, not as widespread as in the USA.
Seriously? That actually happened? Here? I was told my mortgage term had to be shortened because I couldn't have it going past 65.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:51 pm

theBear,

you're dangerously close to giving away your age there!!!! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:03 pm

TheBear wrote:
johnfás wrote:
Of course there were cases of subprime lending. I know a situation of a lady who is now 82 who was 3 years ago given a mortgage (aged 79) for 20 years. She got herself into such a situation she was eventually made a ward of courts.

It was however, not as widespread as in the USA.
Seriously? That actually happened? Here? I was told my mortgage term had to be shortened because I couldn't have it going past 65.

TheBear - this may be a very irritating thing to say at the moment, but the thing to do with mortgages, in so far as you have any options and there aren't built in penalties, is to squeeze yourself to pay them off as fast as possible. The difference in the total amount paid is astounding. If every you get an opportunity to pay off a little lump of it, its well worth considering.
Of course, if we get hyperinflation, all bets are off. What a Face Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:11 pm

Yup really happened but I obviously wouldn't want to say anymore because it is an issue of legal confidence. But yes that sort of thing has happened and did in that instance.

Cactus is absolutely right regarding paying down your mortgage as quickly as you possibly can - you will save an awful lot in the long run. My parents managed to get the amount the eventually paid off on their mortgage alot lower because they went full throttle at paying it off before the kiddies came along.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:18 pm

on my first mortgage i ran the numbers and worked out that if i payed off an extra E100 per month into my mortgage, i would reduce my interest payments over the life of the mortgage by E35,000. any additional payments you make over the monthly payment are set against capital. the rules might be different under a fixed mortgage tho!
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:07 pm

Not on a fixed mortgage, and trackers have the same rules as variables re allowing early payment.

The plan is certainly to pay off as much as possible early. We'll be renting a room for the first couple of years, and that income combined with any mortgage interest relief (if it still exists after today) will be used to knock chunks off the mortgage.

The two brokers we spoke to both said it was worthwhile getting an interest only mortgage for the first two years, but when we sat down with the bank themselves, they showed that IO for two years would cost the guts of €60k more over the term of the mortgage. I'd say, if you can afford it, don't opt for interest only.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:14 pm

TheBear wrote:
Not on a fixed mortgage, and trackers have the same rules as variables re allowing early payment.

The plan is certainly to pay off as much as possible early. We'll be renting a room for the first couple of years, and that income combined with any mortgage interest relief (if it still exists after today) will be used to knock chunks off the mortgage.

The two brokers we spoke to both said it was worthwhile getting an interest only mortgage for the first two years, but when we sat down with the bank themselves, they showed that IO for two years would cost the guts of €60k more over the term of the mortgage. I'd say, if you can afford it, don't opt for interest only.

rent a room is set at a max of E10,000 per annum (or E833 per month) which includes money for utilities (i.e. all monies received by the houseowner from the tenant). it is set per property so cannot be split if the house has two owners i.e two people cohabiting.
its no prob keeping to the ceiling if renting one room, but if two, then its fairly tight.

if you earn a penny over the E10,000 then tax is levied on the whole amount at the marginal rate (perhaps 42%).
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:43 pm

zakalwe wrote:
TheBear wrote:
The plan is certainly to pay off as much as possible early. We'll be renting a room for the first couple of years, and that income combined with any mortgage interest relief (if it still exists after today) will be used to knock chunks off the mortgage.

rent a room is set at a max of E10,000 per annum (or E833 per month) which includes money for utilities (i.e. all monies received by the houseowner from the tenant). it is set per property so cannot be split if the house has two owners i.e two people cohabiting.
its no prob keeping to the ceiling if renting one room, but if two, then its fairly tight.

if you earn a penny over the E10,000 then tax is levied on the whole amount at the marginal rate (perhaps 42%).
I didn't realise it had to include utilities, that's interesting (and handy) to know. The place, though handy for city centre, isn't palatial, so I doubt we'll have any trouble staying under that threshold.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:26 pm

Neary promises tighter monitoring of Irish banks
10/14/2008 - 12:58:05

The Financial Regulator, Patrick Neary, has told an Oireachtas committee today that he plans to introduce tighter monitoring of the way Irish banks do business.
Mr Neary is appearing before the Oireachtas Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs to answer questions about the crisis that pushed the Irish banking system close to collapse.
He told committee members that the rules governing the banks were about to change in the interests of common good.
He said one of his first objectives was to recruit a new 20-strong team of banking supervisors to monitor developments in the various banks.
Banks will also be required to set out new business plans focusing on the need to reduce their risk profile.

we're saved!!!!! neary and his band of merry men to the rescue! all he needs is more staff and a bigger budget! quel surpise
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:20 pm

Due to a demarcation dispute between the Consolidated Alliance of Riding Reindeers and Other Trades and the Elvish Labour Forum - Christmas has been cancelled.

Santa's spokesperson expresses outrage at the development and expressed a wish for both sides to come to an agreement and to check their negotiations twice.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:23 pm

zakalwe wrote:
Neary promises tighter monitoring of Irish banks
10/14/2008 - 12:58:05

The Financial Regulator, Patrick Neary, has told an Oireachtas committee today that he plans to introduce tighter monitoring of the way Irish banks do business.
Mr Neary is appearing before the Oireachtas Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs to answer questions about the crisis that pushed the Irish banking system close to collapse.
He told committee members that the rules governing the banks were about to change in the interests of common good.
He said one of his first objectives was to recruit a new 20-strong team of banking supervisors to monitor developments in the various banks.
Banks will also be required to set out new business plans focusing on the need to reduce their risk profile.

we're saved!!!!! neary and his band of merry men to the rescue! all he needs is more staff and a bigger budget! quel surpise

FFS. Stable door. Horse bolted. Asleep at the wheel. Spilt milk. Dog ate his homework. Holding mickey. More money and more highly paid jobs. Mercy...
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:39 pm

The Chronological Council, after a long and exhaustive set of talks has announced the range of reforms it will be introducing over the coming calendar year:

-Fridays to be abolished
-Mondays to occupy the entire week
-Weekends to be sharply rationed
-Bank holidays to be suspended on the basis that barely any remain

Crunchie has already denounced the measures as reactionary while Happy Days were unavailable for comment

--(c)Reuters
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:40 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
The Chronological Council, after a long and exhaustive set of talks has announced the range of reforms it will be introducing over the coming calendar year:

-Fridays to be abolished
-Mondays to occupy the entire week
-Weekends to be sharply rationed
-Bank holidays to be suspended on the basis that barely any remain

Crunchie has already denounced the measures as reactionary while Happy Days were unavailable for comment

--(c)Reuters

Ha! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:42 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
The Chronological Council, after a long and exhaustive set of talks has announced the range of reforms it will be introducing over the coming calendar year:

-Fridays to be abolished
-Mondays to occupy the entire week
-Weekends to be sharply rationed
-Bank holidays to be suspended on the basis that barely any remain

Crunchie has already denounced the measures as reactionary while Happy Days were unavailable for comment

--(c)Reuters

Ha! Very Happy

It's shocking, isn't it cactus?
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:56 pm

Oh dear, the budget has hit AT so hard he's taken to the juice. There won't be a leaf left on his mint bush by the end of the evening!
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:58 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
Oh dear, the budget has hit AT so hard he's taken to the juice. There won't be a leaf left on his mint bush by the end of the evening!

Nope. A drunken reverie is the only way to insulate oneself from the depressing litany of doom and gloom in our media.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:02 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
Oh dear, the budget has hit AT so hard he's taken to the juice. There won't be a leaf left on his mint bush by the end of the evening!

Nope. A drunken reverie is the only way to insulate oneself from the depressing litany of doom and gloom in our media.

You should come work with me. I've been getting it for months now!
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:12 pm

cookie

Drink or bad news?
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:24 pm

UK Labour's John McDonnell on Brown's missed opportunity to ensure the banks behave responsibly in future:

Quote :
Wednesday, October 15, 2008

One of the Greatest of Labour's Lost Opportunities

This is an article the Guardian's Comment is Free published from me on Monday on the economic crisis. The media are eulogising about Gordon Brown's role in bailing out the banks but I consider it is just a disastrous lost opportunity, which we will live to regret as the recession hits.

Turning a crisis into an opportunity

The financial meltdown is a chance for the government to transform our economy and taxpayers have the right to demand it

The government has been consistently behind the curve on the banking crisis and the chancellor's statement this morning demonstrates that it is missing the chance of turning this crisis into the opportunity of a generation to lay the foundations for transforming our economy.
In his interviews so far today the chancellor has insisted on an arms-length role for government and on returning the banks to private control as soon as possible. At a time when many British taxpayers will be losing their jobs and homes they are being asked to subsidise the banks in the bad times, simply to allow them to return to the profiteering role which caused this crisis.
Taxpayers will want to know what they have got for their money. Under public pressure, the government has been forced into placing some limited and temporary constraints on executive pay and bonuses – and may appoint some non-executive directors. Not a lot for £500bn of public money. The government has drifted into majority or sizeable ownership of individual banks without any coherent strategy about how to use its shareholding.
Let us be clear, the banks which the government has taken into part-nationalisation would have collapsed entirely where it not for government intervention. The billions invested today surpass even the most generous estimates of the banks' worth.
The chancellor seems oblivious to the unprecedented potential the government now has to lay the foundations for transforming our economy. To give the taxpayers a return for their investment, the government should insist on an entirely restructured banking system and a new set of economic priorities for our financial institutions.
The taxpayer, through the government, should now be forcing through an agenda with control of the board: offering full transparency and stakeholder democracy for customers and the workforce. There should also be a no-redundancies guarantee for bank workers to match the no-loss guarantee to depositors.
A new lending strategy of these nationalised banks must prioritise tackling the worst effects of the recession. We need to promote employment through investment in major public works schemes to meet the UK's needs. We urgently need a major programme of investment in renewable energy generation to tackle climate change. Likewise we need a national programme of council house building to tackle existing housing need, and to provide a safety net for those struggling to pay rent and mortgage costs as the recession deepens.
Such infrastructure investment would also mean large-scale job creation to arrest the rising unemployment levels. This would be a rights-based bank system, guaranteeing:
• bank workers and customers the right to a say in how their bank is run; • a right for the taxpayer to see investment that benefits their community; • a right to a secure home.
These are the opportunities the government is missing on behalf of the British public.
The public will also not look kindly if the government continues to refuse to assist local councils affected by the Icelandic banking collapse. The damage to essential local services by a forced round of cuts would be immense.
As taxpayers are paying for this bail-out, it should be their interests that now become the focus of a programme of major structural reform in the banking sector.

(Source: One of the Greatest of Labour's Lost Opportunities (c) 2008, John McDonnell. http://www.johnmcdonnell.org.uk/)
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 pm

The details of the Irish Bailout are just being announced on RTE - I'll go and see if I can find them.
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PostSubject: Re: 'A good day to bury bad news'   Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:13 pm

ANNOUNCEMENT(Embargoed until 20:00 GMT)

In light of the reforms outlined by the Chronological Council, it is the Department for Education and Science's(hereafter "the Department") view that a number of changes to the academic year's structure should be made.

The Department has concluded that the very concept of Mid-Term breaks are now superfluous since the whole week is now to be occupied by Mondays. It was the opinion of the Department that a Mid-Term consisting wholly of Mondays would be absurd and the children would be better served by a week of learning.

Furthermore, Easter Holidays are now to be placed in a moratorium for the next two coming academic years. This is based on the view held by the Department that all their Easter Nest Eggs are all broken as a result of the global stock exchange crash so it isn't worth having a break anyway.

Finally, Summer Holidays are to be chronologically re-adjusted to a more concentrated temporal spectrum.

Thanking you,

Darby O'Lachrymosy
PRO
Department for Education and Science
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