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 Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?

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PostSubject: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:17 am

I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:55 pm

floatingingalway wrote:
I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?

Wow. Perhaps we should club together and buy it. I'd say we'd pick it up for peanuts.

Could it be that everyone has moved across the road to the tax incentivised five storey disney style oirish commerical blocks ?

It is hard for the centres of small Irish towns to survive. I know a small town with only two out of twenty of its shops occupied. They are often owned by elderly people who are selling stuff no one wants. The old shops haven't got car parking, heating, lighting, are too small and expensive to refurbish. Half the population live in rural roads and drive to the bigger towns to shop. Councils permit (and people want) Aldi and Lidl on the edge of town. I suspect that only towns with big influxes of tourists have managed to keep their old shopping streets thriving. England has the same problem - out of town stores being the death blow to a lot of the old centres.


Last edited by cactus flower on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:58 pm

I was down in Enniscorthy not too long ago and it isn't as bad as that makes out. We have a house in Wexford but Kilmuckridge and the beaches tend to be our port of call. There are a number of factors at work in Enniscorthy

(i) The seasonal nature of trade
(ii) Large new shopping developments elsewhere (massive development in Arklow for instance)
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:15 pm

That certainly is a trip to the eighties. Would they not be better off putting one big Sherry-Fitzgerald sign at the town's limits?
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PostSubject: Ghost Town, Enniscorthy   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:50 am

floatingingalway wrote:
I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?
Well I think it is and I made the video and I did film it on a Sunday mornin between 7.30 and 8.30. the reason I filmed it at that time was not for a 'dramatic effect' it was so I could drive and park where ever I wanted without being asked what I was doing for I am known around the town of Enniscorthy.
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PostSubject: 'Ghost Town', Enniscorthy   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:57 am

cactus flower wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:
I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?

Wow. Perhaps we should club together and buy it. I'd say we'd pick it up for peanuts.

Could it be that everyone has moved across the road to the tax incentivised five storey disney style oirish commerical blocks ?

It is hard for the centres of small Irish towns to survive. I know a small town with only two out of twenty of its shops occupied. They are often owned by elderly people who are selling stuff no one wants. The old shops haven't got car parking, heating, lighting, are too small and expensive to refurbish. Half the population live in rural roads and drive to the bigger towns to shop. Councils permit (and people want) Aldi and Lidl on the edge of town. I suspect that only towns with big influxes of tourists have managed to keep their old shopping streets thriving. England has the same problem - out of town stores being the death blow to a lot of the old centres.
We do have Aldi and Lidl in Enniscorthy and they are a mere 10-15 minute walk from the town centre and they have a quite large residential area around them so I wouldn't really call them out of town shopping centres, infact, Enniscorthy don't have an out of town shopping centre unless you call Wexford town, Carlow or Waterford as out of town shopping centres because that is where the people of Enniscorthy go for a chice.
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PostSubject: 'Ghost Town', Enniscorthy   Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:00 am

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
That certainly is a trip to the eighties. Would they not be better off putting one big Sherry-Fitzgerald sign at the town's limits?
Good comment, if I was selling or leasing a property I would not go near Sherry-Fitzgerald as they cant offload what they have !!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:01 am

essmbee wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:
I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?

Wow. Perhaps we should club together and buy it. I'd say we'd pick it up for peanuts.

Could it be that everyone has moved across the road to the tax incentivised five storey disney style oirish commerical blocks ?

It is hard for the centres of small Irish towns to survive. I know a small town with only two out of twenty of its shops occupied. They are often owned by elderly people who are selling stuff no one wants. The old shops haven't got car parking, heating, lighting, are too small and expensive to refurbish. Half the population live in rural roads and drive to the bigger towns to shop. Councils permit (and people want) Aldi and Lidl on the edge of town. I suspect that only towns with big influxes of tourists have managed to keep their old shopping streets thriving. England has the same problem - out of town stores being the death blow to a lot of the old centres.
We do have Aldi and Lidl in Enniscorthy and they are a mere 10-15 minute walk from the town centre and they have a quite large residential area around them so I wouldn't really call them out of town shopping centres, infact, Enniscorthy don't have an out of town shopping centre unless you call Wexford town, Carlow or Waterford as out of town shopping centres because that is where the people of Enniscorthy go for a choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:05 pm

essmbee wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:
I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?
Well I think it is and I made the video and I did film it on a Sunday mornin between 7.30 and 8.30. the reason I filmed it at that time was not for a 'dramatic effect' it was so I could drive and park where ever I wanted without being asked what I was doing for I am known around the town of Enniscorthy.
Well done, good video. It's very sad to see so many empty properties there. It looks a very historic town. What is (was) the main employment there?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:23 pm

The video could have been recorded as easily in 1980's UK or US. We are in Ireland, after all, only following a well worn plan. Fair play to us that we've caught up to speed so quickly.

I was amazed to read a history of a small village (just barely) called Rockcorry in Monaghan. In the 1930's, it had its own industry (linen), several pubs (of course), several small shops - butchers, bakers, tailors, etc. Today there are 2 pubs (one for sale) and two shops, plus a frozen food distributor. One shop is independent the other sponsored by the biggest Irish food distributor. The "independent" shop keeper, sort of speak, is literally ruled by the cash register/computer. He has to keep to scheduled hours and be open 363 days a year. Over 95% of his stock must be purchased from the distributor and any other ancilliary businesses have to be approved from the crowd in Cork. Not much independence imo.

The standard of living in the village, measure quantitatively, is definitely higher today than in the 1930's. The village looks a helluva looks better also. The quality of life, strangely enough, has just deteriorated. As an uncle of mines once stated, there are more home about than ever before and never has the town been so quiet.

A modern paradox possibly?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:34 pm

Mountmellick in Laois was once known as the Manchester of Ireland and had three thousand people employed in the bottling industry alone - it had the first sugar factory in Ireland, Dennys, Pims, tanneries - all kinds of industry and I think the Quakers had a lot to do with that.

Now it has the biggest employer in Laois - the Mountmellick Development Association based in an old restored mill with a restaurant there, an Oral B factory making dental floss (I think) and numerous smaller businesse. There's also a Mountmellick Embroidery Museum and a fabulous new childcare facility. It's a town that has really relied on its own resources, especially since the MDA was formed and the development end of the service has transformed the lives of people in the town.

It started with the dream of one man about twenty years ago and a weekly raffle to raise money to restore the mill that is now used by the Dyslexia Association, Traveller Groups, an art therapist - as well as all the support services for the town such as Citizen's Information, the Youth Development Centre, a Jobseeker's club and God knows what else. It's not perfect but it's striving...

There are fewer businesses on the Main Street though, as far as I can see over the years. There used to be a jeweller, a couple of florists, a photographer etc but they've all disappeared over the years. But like all towns, the people locally need to shop locally to keep the market heart in it. All of which boils down to the vision of the locals.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:57 pm

essmbee wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
floatingingalway wrote:
I just came across this video showing empty properties in Enniscorthy. I have a feeling it was probably filmed early on a Sunday morning for dramatic effect but the amount of empty properties is really shocking. I have never been there so I have no idea how big the place is. Are things there really as bad as the video makes out?

Wow. Perhaps we should club together and buy it. I'd say we'd pick it up for peanuts.

Could it be that everyone has moved across the road to the tax incentivised five storey disney style oirish commerical blocks ?

It is hard for the centres of small Irish towns to survive. I know a small town with only two out of twenty of its shops occupied. They are often owned by elderly people who are selling stuff no one wants. The old shops haven't got car parking, heating, lighting, are too small and expensive to refurbish. Half the population live in rural roads and drive to the bigger towns to shop. Councils permit (and people want) Aldi and Lidl on the edge of town. I suspect that only towns with big influxes of tourists have managed to keep their old shopping streets thriving. England has the same problem - out of town stores being the death blow to a lot of the old centres.
We do have Aldi and Lidl in Enniscorthy and they are a mere 10-15 minute walk from the town centre and they have a quite large residential area around them so I wouldn't really call them out of town shopping centres, infact, Enniscorthy don't have an out of town shopping centre unless you call Wexford town, Carlow or Waterford as out of town shopping centres because that is where the people of Enniscorthy go for a chice.

Congratulations on the video essmbee. You got us all thinking and talking. I know Enniscorthy a bit, and Wexford generally.
The car is one of the main things killing the main streets imo, along with competition from the big supermarkets and the other things I was talking about. But Wexford Main Street still seems to be thriving, even with a big new Dunnes at the Station end and a lot of new shops. Car parking within easy reach, sadly is essential for an old centre to survive. Does Enniscorthy have a central car park? Are there local bus services ? It looks as if the town needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps and it will be hard to do that in a recession. The plus is that with petrol prices going up, shopping local for local produce has got to become more viable. Are people talking about it locally and do they have any kind of a plan ?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:05 am

Came back from there today. I don't think Enniscorthy is as derelict looking as the video makes out, but the town does seem to suffer from some serious traffic congestion problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:22 pm

There was alot of Quaker investment in Mountmellick wasn't there, Kate? That would explain the sound economic fundamentals of the place in times gone by. Anywhere that the Quakers had a hand tended to have a good business plan combined with fairness and a commitment to the welfare of employees.

It is remarkable the number of very well established and regarded companies were established by Quaker families: - Cadburys, Lloyds, Barclays and in Ireland we have Bewleys, Jacobs, Goodbody Solicitors, Goodbody Stockbrokers, Goodbodys were also involved in milling in the midlands.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Enniscorthy really as bad as this?   Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:05 pm

Having lived just outside Wexford for a few years I'm not surprised at the video. Enniscorthy always struck me as a largely derelict place. Obviously there are parts of the town that aren't nearly as bad but I do recall seeing large residential areas run down and dilapidated, and I'm sure many commercial properties are in a similar state.
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