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 The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?

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PostSubject: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:15 pm

http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlidojkfmh/

The collapse of world capitalism may have come in time to save Gordon Brown. Now backed by Harry Potter power and boosted by the evident failure of the free market is there any hope for Nearly New Labour?
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:17 pm

If I am a betting man, and I am not, I would back Gordorn Brown to be Prime Minister after the next election.
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:23 am

New Labour will rightly be blamed on the economic woes of the UK. Unless something strange happens, they are going to be roasted at the next general election. It is a Party that has run out of stream. (not that it had much in the first place).

The Conservatives will not do as well as some recent polls suggest, but Labour have major problems. They will lose seats in Scotland and Wales to Nationalists and will take a hammering in the South of England.

Basically they have presided over a period of economic plenty, have increased taxation, have all sorts of Private Finance Initiative liabilities, and what is there to show for it? In addition they have well and truely alienated much of their former grass roots support. Indeed the very concept of a political party representing the Unions is one of depleted salience. ID schemes, Iraq war, property boom, decline of industry, lack of housing in many parts.......Why would anyone want to queue up to vote for them?

If anyone wants an outside bet try the Greens to win their first Westminster seats in the next election. They will win one in Brighton and another in Norwich and less likely maybe one in Oxford and another in South London.

For myself I would like to see a hung parliament, but see the Lib Dems losing seats to the Conservatives. Right now it looks like a comfortable Conservative win, but believe me many of the leading lights in that party are far from impressive, and the leader, word fail. What is wrong with the world? Blair, Cameron, Obama; whatever happened to good solid statesmen? Instead we have insincere PR men and focus group politics?
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:25 am

What is your opinion on Gordon as a solid statesman Squire? Yes, no, maybe so?
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:53 am

johnfás wrote:
What is your opinion on Gordon as a solid statesman Squire? Yes, no, maybe so?

Gordon Brown means well of that i have no doubt. He does want to improve the lot of the poor. That is a lot more than could be said about Tony who was there on some mission of self proof. The problems with Brown are,
1 He is indecisive and hesitates. He is 'careful'. He should have called an election when he became leader, and if he had he would have won, gave himself a few more years and improved his standing. I also think he should have moved decisively against Tony long ago. A lot of the problems he is facing are IMO inherited.
2 Obsessed with detail and control. Parts of the benifit system simply do not work, every year gripes, lots of them. I like simplicity, but Brown likes detail, lots of insignificant detail. I doubt if he can see the woods for the trees half the time.
3 Does not understand that you really do need to create wealth so that it can be spread.
4 His fiddling with the books to me is false accounting. The Private Finance Initiatives are there so that liability is of the books.

He is very intelligent, does know what he is doing, but reminds me of someone who just can't take what they have got, run with it and make the most of opportunities. I don't think he has a clear vision of where he wants to go, his mind is cluttered with detail. I doubt if he is good at delegating and to manage you must delegate and make people responsible. He is in the wrong job, but don't see an obvious replacement.
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:56 am

Brown or his successor still have a trump card in the fact that they are up against the tories
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:04 am

Squire wrote:
johnfás wrote:
What is your opinion on Gordon as a solid statesman Squire? Yes, no, maybe so?

Gordon Brown means well of that i have no doubt. He does want to improve the lot of the poor. That is a lot more than could be said about Tony who was there on some mission of self proof. The problems with Brown are,
1 He is indecisive and hesitates. He is 'careful'. He should have called an election when he became leader, and if he had he would have won, gave himself a few more years and improved his standing. I also think he should have moved decisively against Tony long ago. A lot of the problems he is facing are IMO inherited.
2 Obsessed with detail and control. Parts of the benifit system simply do not work, every year gripes, lots of them. I like simplicity, but Brown likes detail, lots of insignificant detail. I doubt if he can see the woods for the trees half the time.
3 Does not understand that you really do need to create wealth so that it can be spread.
4 His fiddling with the books to me is false accounting. The Private Finance Initiatives are there so that liability is of the books.

He is very intelligent, does know what he is doing, but reminds me of someone who just can't take what they have got, run with it and make the most of opportunities. I don't think he has a clear vision of where he wants to go, his mind is cluttered with detail. I doubt if he is good at delegating and to manage you must delegate and make people responsible. He is in the wrong job, but don't see an obvious replacement.

He seems to have made an enormous blunder in relation to taxation of people on low incomes. However the people infuriated by that will not vote Tory.
I agree about the Greens, but sadly I also see the BNP coming, and blame Labour much for leaving the working class vote rudderless.
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:22 am

cactus flower wrote:

He seems to have made an enormous blunder in relation to taxation of people on low incomes. However the people infuriated by that will not vote Tory.
I agree about the Greens, but sadly I also see the BNP coming, and blame Labour much for leaving the working class vote rudderless.

I can never understand why any government taxes people who are below the poverty line and then gives them means tested benefits. Worse still their benefit is often calculated incorrectly and they have then to repay, don't have need to know the exact details but it appears an inefficient mess.

Agree BNP is a very real problem, hopefully they will not take Westminster seats.
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:31 am

Hopefully it's a Hung Parliament and David Cameron becomes PM on the condition he brings in PR to give the Lib Dems a fair whack at the electoral stick. Then we can look forward to a Lib Dem government in less than ten years! What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:03 am

Gordon Brown's belief that he is saving the world doesn't seem to cutting much ice in Britain. There is distrust of the massive borrowings and increasingly people are looking for full nationalisation of the banking system.
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:11 am

Don't have the exact figures in front of me but am pretty sure the Tories are now back down to just a few % points ahead of Labour in the polls. Given that the country is going down the proverbial plughole fast, they should surely be much further ahead. Osborne has been woeful and Cameron is still too lightweight. Evan Davis was too easy on him yesterday morning on R4, he should have had him for breakfast.

Am sure Labour would love to have an election next June latest, while things are still bad, but not as bad as it's going to get. What a Face And God, 2009 is going to be bad!
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PostSubject: Re: The Labour Party Conference - Can New Labour Survive?   Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:44 pm

If they hold the election after the holidays then many will realise what Sterling is now worth.

The only thing saving Labour is the Tory Party. They do not instil any confidence whatsoever. No shadow chancellor and no leader of the opposition makes the statements these two fools have been making recently. They are not going down well with Conservative acquaintance. Grumblings of disquiet.

David Davis or the likes of Ken Clarke would have been much better leaders of the opposition. Who wants a Blair clone? Who wants a Party that has virtually no experience of government?

However come an election be in no doubt Labour are going to lose. ID schemes, falling Sterling, police State, over regulation (HIPS and all the rest of the pointless nonsense), rising unemployment. They would need a miracle to save them.

I am hoping for a hung parliament and Lib Dems in. Only so that PR is introduced in Britain. Other than that don't care as I can see little to recommend or distinguish between Labour and the Conservatives.
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