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 The Achievements of the Greens In Government

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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:05 am

Free market this !

Sanyo's New Washer Uses 96% Less Water


Ecogeek

Quote :
The drum-style machines converts air to ozone to eliminate bacteria and odor, a process previously used only in commercial washing machines like those in hospitals with ozone-generating machines. But Sanyo is now packaging the technology for household use. Water is purified using a recycling process. The ozone washes away bacteria, which can lead to smells, and dirt.

It also recycles water we're told.

So should the Greens treat the market as a mechanism which can be manipulated for Green ends?
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:10 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
So should the Greens treat the market as a mechanism which can be manipulated for Green ends?

YES. Sure the libertarians and neoliberals will bitch and whinge, but they do that anyway, by and large because they don't understand markets either. Markets are mechanisms - mechanisms for putting wants and needs together. Anything more sophisticated than stall-holder barter markets requires regulation, and the regulation shapes the market. The Greens need to shape markets to deliver green results without preventing them doing their real job of matching sellers and buyers.

We shouldn't be relying on "educating the consumer to make the right choice", like climate change was some kind of optional problem. The market must be made to operate so that it automatically makes the polluter pay, and the price of polluting, as a common good, set by the government high enough to actually discourage polluting. They manage it for cigarettes, for God's sake. There's a nearly complete lack of political will to really do anything, despite all the denialist fantasies about how it's a government conspiracy to tax and regulate the people.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:39 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
Free market this !

Sanyo's New Washer Uses 96% Less Water


Ecogeek

Quote :
The drum-style machines converts air to ozone to eliminate bacteria and odor, a process previously used only in commercial washing machines like those in hospitals with ozone-generating machines. But Sanyo is now packaging the technology for household use. Water is purified using a recycling process. The ozone washes away bacteria, which can lead to smells, and dirt.

It also recycles water we're told.

Another fine example of the innovation, brilliance and capability of the private sector to come up with the tools we need to seriously tackle climate change and water shortages. What the Greens should do is set up an incentive for consumers to purchase this washing machine over more polluting varieties. Put in place the pricing and incentive signals and let producers and consumers sort out the rest.

Quote :
So should the Greens treat the market as a mechanism which can be manipulated for Green ends?

Definitely, through taxes, incentives, patents and the like they can sculpt the market towards more environmentally-friendly ends.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:18 pm

Ciaran Cuffe is on Pat Kenny... he is giving a very bad impression of himself as a representative of the Government. He has basically answered "I don't know" to every question asked so far. For instance, where will the €200 car park levy apply to. "Well, I'm not really sure... It could by this... it could be that... there could be teething problems... I don't know"
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:32 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
Free market this !

Sanyo's New Washer Uses 96% Less Water


Ecogeek

Quote :
The drum-style machines converts air to ozone to eliminate bacteria and odor, a process previously used only in commercial washing machines like those in hospitals with ozone-generating machines. But Sanyo is now packaging the technology for household use. Water is purified using a recycling process. The ozone washes away bacteria, which can lead to smells, and dirt.

It also recycles water we're told.

Another fine example of the innovation, brilliance and capability of the private sector to come up with the tools we need to seriously tackle climate change and water shortages. What the Greens should do is set up an incentive for consumers to purchase this washing machine over more polluting varieties. Put in place the pricing and incentive signals and let producers and consumers sort out the rest.

Quote :
So should the Greens treat the market as a mechanism which can be manipulated for Green ends?

Definitely, through taxes, incentives, patents and the like they can sculpt the market towards more environmentally-friendly ends.

The only way that anyy of this sort of alleged innovation stands a snowballs chance in hell of working is if the markets accept that the notion of endless growth is impossible. This machine may reduce the amount of water used during a was cycle but does it reduce the overall amount of energy used in the wash cycle and during its manufacture. If not, then it is a red herring. The world is a finite place with finite resources. The reality of that is unavoidable. Capitalism will die sooner or later, theonly question is whether we manage its demise constructively or will we let the ugliness at its heart completely destroy us. The Green Party have made themselves irrelevant to this question.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:46 pm

Someone started a thread here this morning about someone switching jobs from public to private sector, but staying in the same business sector. The thread was pulled, and I can think of a couple of reasons for doing that. However, in general, I think we need to bring this sort of thing (I'd call it "scandal") into the public domain. Fine Gael and Labour are curiously reluctant to get stuck into the issue of significant job switches and conflicts of interest, while Fianna Fáil see it as the way to "get things done".

There are two sides to this coin: One is the aforementioned -- public servants leaving for a lucrative position in the private sector related to their previous job. The other side is public appointments, where the Minister for Whatever appoints one of his/her cronies to an influential position which in turn will confer lucrative benefits on other cronies.

The Greens, and Dan Boyle in particular, were very vocal in condemning that sort of carry-on. Until May 2007, that is. Not a peep out of them now of course.

I think these public-to-private (and vice versa) job switches should entail a cooling-off period of five years at least.

Another example that comes to mind is Dr Wayne Anderson, chief food scientist in the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. Anderson was appointed after spending ten years working for Unilever. (Irish consumers really need to cop on about the FSAI: its priority is protecting agri-business rather than the public.)

This week, Anderson was questioned on RTE radio about what looks like a FSAI failure in relation to bottled water (listen here). Sean O'Rourke asked him:
Quote :
Whose side are you on?
Anderson replied:
Quote :
I think the reputation of the FSAI has answered that question...

I recall the words of John Gormley, speaking on RTE Prime Time, February 2007, about the FSAI Scientific Committee's actions, led by Anderson, in relation to fluoride:
Quote :
If the Oireachtas [Health] Committee conducted itself in that fashion, there would be outrage...
Watch it here (at 4:20). More details here.

I also recall:

"It cannot be lawful for a state to poison its own people. We have ample evidence that fluoridation is damaging our health." -- Trevor Sargent TD, Feb 1997 (speech in the Dáil)

"If I'm in government fluoridation will go in the first month in office. That's a guarantee." -- John Gormley TD, Feb 2007 (personal e-mail)

"In Government we would immediately ban water fluoridation." -- Green Party health policy, Nov 2008

Whose side are the Greens on now?
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:30 pm

The thread was pulled for the time being with the agreement of the poster of the OP.

This was an issue for me at one stage: I turned down work from a previous employer and also didn't work in the area for a couple of years after leaving the public sector. This was met with blank incomprehension.

I agree that it political appointments are a disaster: all to often, the wrong person doing a bad job.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:21 pm

Aragon wrote:
The only way that anyy of this sort of alleged innovation stands a snowballs chance in hell of working is if the markets accept that the notion of endless growth is impossible. This machine may reduce the amount of water used during a was cycle but does it reduce the overall amount of energy used in the wash cycle and during its manufacture. If not, then it is a red herring. The world is a finite place with finite resources. The reality of that is unavoidable. Capitalism will die sooner or later, the only question is whether we manage its demise constructively or will we let the ugliness at its heart completely destroy us. The Green Party have made themselves irrelevant to this question.

Yes, when will we ever realise it's all limited and the world population meanwhile is growing by around 1.73 million per day - so between the time you posted the Albert Bartlett videos and now the world population has increased by the population of around that of France, the UK or maybe ten Irelands. The IEA were on the news at six talking about the present illusion of cheap oil and how it's all going to go pear-shaped after a brief respite. They need to find 6 Saudi Arabias to keep the supply for our demand. The IEA are calling for a an Alternative Energy Revolution in order to save us. Eamon Ryan was on on there saying - rightly I think - that we could propel ourselves out of this economic sump by an intense focus on alternative energy. Earlier Joan Burton with regards to the Finance Bill was wondering if anyone had a strategy at all and emphasised that the country needed a strategy. What do you think of Eamon Ryan's belief with regards to alternative energy/economics, Aragon ?

The washing machine, by using less water will use less energy in principle. It takes more energy to heat more water plus the water that a washing machine uses has already been processed into reservoirs, pumped, cleaned and that takes energy. Article in Scientific American recently on the virtues of solving the imminent energy/water crises conjointly. Energy versus Water: Solving Both Crises Together

Your point about growth and capitalism though - hasn't capitalism been shown by recent events to be capable of devouring itself ? Capitalism isn't necessarily evil in itself it just has varying levels of stupidity - what many people did by mortgaging their futures was a bit silly as now we have a class of 'working poor' who have backed themselves into a corner often leaving themselves without monthly money for emergencies, it is so tight. We'll do this on a wider scale as well though - over-development of houses in Ennis has perhaps polluted so much of the ground water that it'll take a generation to reverse but we should try. Commercial development on floodplains is still being stubbornly kept as rezoned despite the recent restrictions imposed by Gormley. I'll remind you that the Greens weren't anywhere near power when the people around here were let shit wholesale in their own wells. The Greens aren't ideal (WHERE'S THE SMART METER :X) but they could prove to be the best of a bad lot in the trying times that are ahead.

Gormley did this for the people of Clare as well. The people of Quilty on the West Coast have been waiting for ages - possibly decades - to get funding for sewage treatment and lately they've been getting the infrastructure put in. To the eyes the village of Quilty is a jewel to the nose a shithole but that will change now. Plus, fishermen who catch fish off the coast there won't be eating Mrs. O'Brien's fish-digested ... I won't go on.

Quote :

Sewerage Scheme Announcement Is Praised By Minister Killeen
Published 08/26/2007 - 11:03 p.m. EST
(PressMediaWire) County Clare, IRELAND - Minister of State and Clare T.D., Mr. Tony Killeen has warmly welcomed today's Government approval of grant assistance of up to EUR16.4 million for two separate bundles of major sewerage schemes in County Clare. The approval comes despite a rejection by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government of Clare County Council's proposals for both bundles.

Grant assistance of up to EUR10.392m has been allocated for the carrying out of major improvements to the existing Ennistymon, Miltown Malbay and Liscannor sewerage schemes and the provision, for the first time, of a public sewerage scheme for Spanish Point. Meanwhile, grant assistance of up to EUR6.025m has been allocated for the carrying out of major improvements to the existing Ballyvaughan and Corofin Sewerage Schemes and the provision, also for the first time, of a public sewerage scheme in Doolin.

Despite receiving written confirmation from the relevant section of Department of the Environment today, Minister Killeen explained that he has asked Minister John Gormley to confirm that Lahinch is also included in the approved bundle.

Minister Killeen praised the Minister for the Environment for allocating the necessary funds despite not having approved the scheme designs.

"Minister John Gormley has short-circuited the process that took years in the case of Quilty, Mullagh and Feakle", explained Minister Killeen.
http://www.pressmediawire.com/article.cfm?articleID=2132
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:43 pm

Quote :
Minister Killeen praised the Minister for the Environment for allocating the necessary funds despite not having approved the scheme designs.

I wonder, does that mean the schemes were badly designed, or not priced, or just not funded?
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