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 The Achievements of the Greens In Government

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PostSubject: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:37 pm

http://www.greenparty.ie/government/achievements_in_government


Any comments ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:55 pm

All parties should be made do out a list like that so as to compare them better coming up to elections.

The Green Party have been busy, fair play.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:27 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
The Green Party have been busy, fair play.
The Green ministers, TDs, and their advisers have been busy, of course. On their salaries, what do you expect?

The Green Party as a whole is no longer busy on the major issues, apart from global warming and all that. If they're doing anything about those major issues, they're being very quiet about it. This is in contrast to how the party was before the election last year.

What does "Green" mean these days? Some Greens are in favour of nuclear power; some of them support warmongering; some of them use GreenFacts.org as a source of factual information (it isn't); and so on. What is the point of the Green Party now?

Charlie Haughey said (in 1989, I think): "I'm a bit of a Green myself." Has the Green Party simply become Fianna Fáil's bit of Green?
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:37 pm

I don't see a lot there of substance and its hard to tell which of these measures would have happened without Greens in Government.

This was an interesting item that I'll be following up on:

10 Jan: Study shows Ireland can surpass renewable targets. Eamon's department and its Northern counterpart published a joint study on renewable energy and the all-island electricity grid, which showed that Ireland could become a world leader in renewable energy.

The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:39 pm

**cactus post above

I really don't know so much about their absolute achievements but for me they stand in contrast to other parties because at least they have something approximating policies.

In West Clare for example in Quilty there has been a campaign for years to get sewerage put into the village and somehow it coincided with Gormley in the Dáil as Minister that the system is now being put in ... Any connection there? I'm sure the people of Quilty are happy.

Another pissing against the wind exercise by Gormley down here is the Greens thrust towards more local democracy; he suggests a Mayor of Limerick for instance and power centered around that office rather than a proliferation of mayors for Ennis, Shannon, Limerick, the Cliffs of Moher, the Ailwee Caves etc. but those local hoors obviously will vote for that like Turkeys will vote for Christmas. One of the upshots might be that public finance could be distributed more evenly between Limerick, Ennis because money and commuters move that way anyway already quite freely.

So with the local councillors they may be a while trying to convince them of the need for decentralisation of power or re-centralisation of more power to a local position but how much is the push for change going up against intransigence that will be virtually impossible to melt. It will take an economic catastrophe in Shannon Airport and a very convincing debate on the part of Green sympathisers to change some things here.


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:53 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : clarified quilty sewerage system line)
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:16 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
... It will take an economic catastrophe in Shannon Airport and a very convincing debate on the part of Green sympathisers to change some things here.
Anybody there noticing the human catastrophe in Shannon Airport?
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:37 pm

soubresauts wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
... It will take an economic catastrophe in Shannon Airport and a very convincing debate on the part of Green sympathisers to change some things here.
Anybody there noticing the human catastrophe in Shannon Airport?
How do you mean? Unemployment or what? I know people who have been made unemployed since Bertie gave the Heathrow slots to Ian Paisley. You then hear the sounds : "Fianna Fáil will be punished in the next election". They will in their holes - ye'll go along and vote for them again. "Sher Fine Gael are no better and the Greens either - better off voting for the Devil you know" - that's Clare people for you, I'd say our brains are affected by something - there's supposed to be an inordinate amount of fluoride in the water down here, I believe. I know you are singularly pissed off about the fluoride u-turn the Greens did but do you see what anyone who wants change in this place is up against? The Fianna Fáil Brick Wall (I uncharitably apply this stereotype to the general Irish thicko mentality of "sher why would you do it that way? it's alright the way it is. It'll cost a fortune to do it that way sher it'll do the way it is, it's fine.")

We don't like doing things right - almost to a man in this country. Can you imagine the hoops a whole party has to jump through to get something done - any party will have to snake charm a load of thickos in order to install anything useful.

That's assuming you largely agree that it's a nice idea to have functioning infrastructure.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:52 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
soubresauts wrote:
Anybody there noticing the human catastrophe in Shannon Airport?
How do you mean? Unemployment or what? I know people who have been made unemployed since Bertie gave the Heathrow slots to Ian Paisley...
I was thinking of the connection with Iraq, Afghanistan, rendition prisoners, and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:57 pm

soubresauts wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
soubresauts wrote:
Anybody there noticing the human catastrophe in Shannon Airport?
How do you mean? Unemployment or what? I know people who have been made unemployed since Bertie gave the Heathrow slots to Ian Paisley...
I was thinking of the connection with Iraq, Afghanistan, rendition prisoners, and so on.
In fairness I think people feel guilty about that. There is a fair bit of sympathy for those who sabotaged those planes and some grudging respect even.

We still can't seem to make the connection though. Perhaps it's an economic thing - reliance on dollars and American authority. People are not comfortable about it though and wouldn't bat an eyelid if they were gone in the morning - I wouldn't anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:51 pm

On Rendition and the Greens - didn't they want planes searched as recommended by a european human rights commission? They did a u-turn on this too but what could they have done? Stood by their principles?
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:55 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
On Rendition and the Greens - didn't they want planes searched as recommended by a european human rights commission? They did a u-turn on this too but what could they have done? Stood by their principles?

Yes. Other countries are searching.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:14 am

cactus flower wrote:


The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.

What's wrong with that? The private sector is the engine of innovation, creativity and hard work in the economy. They make the products, they provide the services and invent the things which people put into their homes. I'm delighted that the Green Party is actively attempting to bring the private sector into the fight against climate change since it will be bright and agile businesspeople rather than clumsy, bureaucratic civil servants who will come up with the tools we need to fight climate change.

Think about it, efficient solar cells, wind turbines, electric cars, lithium ion batteries, passive heating systems, efficient gas boilers. All these environmentally conscious products have their origin in the private sector and it is only when the environmental goods of this world are a competitive mass market that we will see the problem of climate change truly defeated.

The private sector will do it better, quicker and more efficiently than our civil service who will have sorted out an organisational structure by the time the water is lapping around our knees.

The Green Party are doing an excellent job in government. They have;

Improved insulation standards in new builds by 40%
Introduced a new, more favourable taxation arrangement for natural resources.
Brought in the country's first carbon budget.
Rapped Monaghan County Council's knuckles over bad planning.
Reformed county council boundaries ahead of the next election.
Moved along the idea of a directly elected Mayor for Dublin by 2011.
Oversaw the awarding of licences to digital TV providers preparing us for the future.
Put real effort into addressing the broadband deficit in Ireland and helping to make Ireland the third-fastest growing broadband market in the OECD.


The Greens are ignoring their detractors well and getting on with the business of government very well and by the time we cast our ballots in the next general election, they will have enhanced and extended these initial achievements.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:32 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:


The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.

What's wrong with that? The private sector is the engine of innovation, creativity and hard work in the economy. They make the products, they provide the services and invent the things which people put into their homes. I'm delighted that the Green Party is actively attempting to bring the private sector into the fight against climate change since it will be bright and agile businesspeople rather than clumsy, bureaucratic civil servants who will come up with the tools we need to fight climate change.

Think about it, efficient solar cells, wind turbines, electric cars, lithium ion batteries, passive heating systems, efficient gas boilers. All these environmentally conscious products have their origin in the private sector and it is only when the environmental goods of this world are a competitive mass market that we will see the problem of climate change truly defeated.

The private sector will do it better, quicker and more efficiently than our civil service who will have sorted out an organisational structure by the time the water is lapping around our knees.

The Green Party are doing an excellent job in government. They have;

Improved insulation standards in new builds by 40%
Introduced a new, more favourable taxation arrangement for natural resources.
Brought in the country's first carbon budget.
Rapped Monaghan County Council's knuckles over bad planning.
Reformed county council boundaries ahead of the next election.
Moved along the idea of a directly elected Mayor for Dublin by 2011.
Oversaw the awarding of licences to digital TV providers preparing us for the future.
Put real effort into addressing the broadband deficit in Ireland and helping to make Ireland the third-fastest growing broadband market in the OECD.


The Greens are ignoring their detractors well and getting on with the business of government very well and by the time we cast our ballots in the next general election, they will have enhanced and extended these initial achievements.

I would agree with that - I think those who are disappointed are mostly those who were more red than green, and/or those whose are more new age than realistic.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 am

ibis wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:


The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.

What's wrong with that? The private sector is the engine of innovation, creativity and hard work in the economy. They make the products, they provide the services and invent the things which people put into their homes. I'm delighted that the Green Party is actively attempting to bring the private sector into the fight against climate change since it will be bright and agile businesspeople rather than clumsy, bureaucratic civil servants who will come up with the tools we need to fight climate change.

Think about it, efficient solar cells, wind turbines, electric cars, lithium ion batteries, passive heating systems, efficient gas boilers. All these environmentally conscious products have their origin in the private sector and it is only when the environmental goods of this world are a competitive mass market that we will see the problem of climate change truly defeated.

The private sector will do it better, quicker and more efficiently than our civil service who will have sorted out an organisational structure by the time the water is lapping around our knees.

The Green Party are doing an excellent job in government. They have;

Improved insulation standards in new builds by 40%
Introduced a new, more favourable taxation arrangement for natural resources.
Brought in the country's first carbon budget.
Rapped Monaghan County Council's knuckles over bad planning.
Reformed county council boundaries ahead of the next election.
Moved along the idea of a directly elected Mayor for Dublin by 2011.
Oversaw the awarding of licences to digital TV providers preparing us for the future.
Put real effort into addressing the broadband deficit in Ireland and helping to make Ireland the third-fastest growing broadband market in the OECD.


The Greens are ignoring their detractors well and getting on with the business of government very well and by the time we cast our ballots in the next general election, they will have enhanced and extended these initial achievements.

I would agree with that - I think those who are disappointed are mostly those who were more red than green, and/or those whose are more new age than realistic.

I much doubt that reds would have been disappointed with the Greens. There is plenty of precursor evidence from Germany and elsewhere to see how they perform in Government.
Í wouldn't think there were any great surprises.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:25 pm

ibis wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:


The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.

What's wrong with that? The private sector is the engine of innovation, creativity and hard work in the economy. They make the products, they provide the services and invent the things which people put into their homes. I'm delighted that the Green Party is actively attempting to bring the private sector into the fight against climate change since it will be bright and agile businesspeople rather than clumsy, bureaucratic civil servants who will come up with the tools we need to fight climate change.

Think about it, efficient solar cells, wind turbines, electric cars, lithium ion batteries, passive heating systems, efficient gas boilers. All these environmentally conscious products have their origin in the private sector and it is only when the environmental goods of this world are a competitive mass market that we will see the problem of climate change truly defeated.

The private sector will do it better, quicker and more efficiently than our civil service who will have sorted out an organisational structure by the time the water is lapping around our knees.

The Green Party are doing an excellent job in government. They have;

Improved insulation standards in new builds by 40%
Introduced a new, more favourable taxation arrangement for natural resources.
Brought in the country's first carbon budget.
Rapped Monaghan County Council's knuckles over bad planning.
Reformed county council boundaries ahead of the next election.
Moved along the idea of a directly elected Mayor for Dublin by 2011.
Oversaw the awarding of licences to digital TV providers preparing us for the future.
Put real effort into addressing the broadband deficit in Ireland and helping to make Ireland the third-fastest growing broadband market in the OECD.


The Greens are ignoring their detractors well and getting on with the business of government very well and by the time we cast our ballots in the next general election, they will have enhanced and extended these initial achievements.

I would agree with that - I think those who are disappointed are mostly those who were more red than green, and/or those whose are more new age than realistic.

Thanks, ibis. The Greens are doing great all things considered.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:21 pm

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:


The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.

What's wrong with that? The private sector is the engine of innovation, creativity and hard work in the economy. They make the products, they provide the services and invent the things which people put into their homes. I'm delighted that the Green Party is actively attempting to bring the private sector into the fight against climate change since it will be bright and agile businesspeople rather than clumsy, bureaucratic civil servants who will come up with the tools we need to fight climate change.

Think about it, efficient solar cells, wind turbines, electric cars, lithium ion batteries, passive heating systems, efficient gas boilers. All these environmentally conscious products have their origin in the private sector and it is only when the environmental goods of this world are a competitive mass market that we will see the problem of climate change truly defeated.

The private sector will do it better, quicker and more efficiently than our civil service who will have sorted out an organisational structure by the time the water is lapping around our knees.

I see no one has attacked this excellent post of the Ard-Taoiseach in defence of the private sector; the private sector I'm sure has done a lot of damage in the past (they fecked up L.A. for example) but isn't it up to people and governments to limit the raping and pillaging they can do if left alone? Home grown energy - which the GP support - takes away the need for energy multi-nationals to rape the likes of Burma like some French companies have been accused of. The public needs to know when to draw a line so that the private sector can do their work, blossom and ultimately serve the public.

I'm off to Ecogeek.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:59 am

Auditor #9 wrote:

I see no one has attacked this excellent post of the Ard-Taoiseach in defence of the private sector; the private sector I'm sure has done a lot of damage in the past (they fecked up L.A. for example)

Thank you very much for describing my post as excellent, I was simply attempting to highlight the benefit the private sector brings to the economy and country. However, I don't intend for my post to be a whitewash of the problems that the private sector have caused, they have undoubtedly done that but their positive attributes must be mentioned. You must also remember that the public sector is equally culpable and is equally to blame for many major cock-ups in the past. Whether it's spending way too much on procurement, hiding corruption, setting inappropriate taxes and so many more things the public sector does cause events which are to the detriment of society.

Quote :
but isn't it up to people and governments to limit the raping and pillaging they can do if left alone? Home grown energy - which the GP support - takes away the need for energy multi-nationals to rape the likes of Burma like some French companies have been accused of. The public needs to know when to draw a line so that the private sector can do their work, blossom and ultimately serve the public.

Which is exactly why both public and private interests must intertwine so as to fight the war against climate change. If the private sector is not enlisted in this battle, we may as well sit around doing crosswords while waiting for the Greenland ice sheet to engulf us all.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:44 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
cactus flower wrote:


The thing that strikes me most is how keen they are to work with the private sector: I would say Green PDs myself rather than Green FF.

What's wrong with that? The private sector is the engine of innovation, creativity and hard work in the economy. They make the products, they provide the services and invent the things which people put into their homes. I'm delighted that the Green Party is actively attempting to bring the private sector into the fight against climate change since it will be bright and agile businesspeople rather than clumsy, bureaucratic civil servants who will come up with the tools we need to fight climate change.

Think about it, efficient solar cells, wind turbines, electric cars, lithium ion batteries, passive heating systems, efficient gas boilers. All these environmentally conscious products have their origin in the private sector and it is only when the environmental goods of this world are a competitive mass market that we will see the problem of climate change truly defeated.

The private sector will do it better, quicker and more efficiently than our civil service who will have sorted out an organisational structure by the time the water is lapping around our knees.

I see no one has attacked this excellent post of the Ard-Taoiseach in defence of the private sector; the private sector I'm sure has done a lot of damage in the past (they fecked up L.A. for example) but isn't it up to people and governments to limit the raping and pillaging they can do if left alone? Home grown energy - which the GP support - takes away the need for energy multi-nationals to rape the likes of Burma like some French companies have been accused of. The public needs to know when to draw a line so that the private sector can do their work, blossom and ultimately serve the public.

An unregulated private sector...would be a bad idea, both for the private sector itself and the wider world.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:46 am

ibis wrote:

An unregulated private sector...would be a bad idea, both for the private sector itself and the wider world.

Exactly, letting a free-for-all develop would be destructive, disruptive and impair our ability to set long-term goals. At the same time, we must not let the burden of regulation become so onerous that it is virtually impossible for the private sector to carry out its work. We must strike a correct balance.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:53 am

Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
ibis wrote:

An unregulated private sector...would be a bad idea, both for the private sector itself and the wider world.

Exactly, letting a free-for-all develop would be destructive, disruptive and impair our ability to set long-term goals. At the same time, we must not let the burden of regulation become so onerous that it is virtually impossible for the private sector to carry out its work. We must strike a correct balance.
So what's the basis of the Greens economics? Adam Smith? Did Adam Smith anticipate regulation? It's not a very free market if it has to be regulated ...
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:57 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
ibis wrote:

An unregulated private sector...would be a bad idea, both for the private sector itself and the wider world.

Exactly, letting a free-for-all develop would be destructive, disruptive and impair our ability to set long-term goals. At the same time, we must not let the burden of regulation become so onerous that it is virtually impossible for the private sector to carry out its work. We must strike a correct balance.
So what's the basis of the Greens economics? Adam Smith? Did Adam Smith anticipate regulation? It's not a very free market if it has to be regulated ...

A free market can have levels of regulation, but just not too many. I'd say someone like Galbraith might be the basis of Greens economics, but I'm not too sure.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:00 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
ibis wrote:

An unregulated private sector...would be a bad idea, both for the private sector itself and the wider world.

Exactly, letting a free-for-all develop would be destructive, disruptive and impair our ability to set long-term goals. At the same time, we must not let the burden of regulation become so onerous that it is virtually impossible for the private sector to carry out its work. We must strike a correct balance.
So what's the basis of the Greens economics? Adam Smith? Did Adam Smith anticipate regulation? It's not a very free market if it has to be regulated ...

And Adam Smith did anticipate regulation as this webpage explores...

Ms. Rothschild stresses that Smith was sometimes tolerant of government intervention, "especially when the object is to reduce poverty." Smith passionately argued, "When the regulation, therefore, is in support of the workman, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes otherwise when in favour of the masters."

link.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:10 am

Smith had all angles covered. He was a mind well beyond his time.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:12 am

cookiemonster wrote:
Smith had all angles covered. He was a mind well beyond his time.

Which is more than can be said of other economists.
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PostSubject: Re: The Achievements of the Greens In Government   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:29 am

Auditor #9 wrote:
Ard-Taoiseach wrote:
ibis wrote:

An unregulated private sector...would be a bad idea, both for the private sector itself and the wider world.

Exactly, letting a free-for-all develop would be destructive, disruptive and impair our ability to set long-term goals. At the same time, we must not let the burden of regulation become so onerous that it is virtually impossible for the private sector to carry out its work. We must strike a correct balance.
So what's the basis of the Greens economics? Adam Smith? Did Adam Smith anticipate regulation? It's not a very free market if it has to be regulated ...

Ha ha! You're asking the wrong "Green". I'm a pro-market environmentalist - most other Greens would disagree with me furiously, usually because they don't have a bulls' notion what markets are or do. Ask Pax.
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