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 Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?

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PostSubject: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:48 pm



I think this deserves a thread of it's own. Sarah Palin has been chosen as the Rebublican VP.

She's a woman and will appeal to the Clintonistas. I suspect though that much of the appeal of Hillary was that she would have the top job. After all, she was like a VP when Bill was in power. The only way I think this will really appeal to Clinton supporters is if they think McCain is likely to kick the bucket any time soon.

She's stolen Obama's thunder. It was a great surprise and a headline grabber, exactly what thye need for the Republican convention. Puindits reckon that the next couple of weeks are the important ones, when the majority will make up their minds. If so, she's as good an attention grabber as any other VP. But when the novelty wears off she might not seem to have as much to offer.

She's young and well up on the 'change' message. But does this mean the Republicans can't criticise Obama on these grounds anymore? And is her appointment a tribute to Obama's theme? Also, relative to her, Obama is very experienced. He survived the race for the nomination, which is experience in itself. Most of his skeletons (he hopes) are out there and he's weathered a few storms in his short time. We don't know if she's up to all this.

She's from Alaska, which was safe for McCain anyway. Where is Biden from?


Last edited by cactus flower on Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:44 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added youtube)
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:03 am

It deserves its own thread indeed. Is it such a sneaky one that she was picked? It does seem it will try to rob the disappointed ones after Hillary but is it a bit of desperation for the Republicans? The CLR was good on this the other day.

905 I'd like to put a photo or something of Palin and McCain in your post above so it appears on the portal ok? Eye candy and all.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:05 am

rendeer Tis a bad day for us mooses.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:08 am

When it was announced I thought it was a great move but it doesn't seem be have been taken very well by the outer ring republicans, which I wasn't expecting.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:11 am

Auditor #9 wrote:

905 I'd like to put a photo or something of Palin and McCain in your post above so it appears on the portal ok? Eye candy and all.

America could do worse.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:37 am

Exactly what I was thinking 905.

Anyway, I'd like to hear why people think it was a good move. To me it seems to have been all about getting the female vote, particularly Hillary's vote. But I don't think it will have too much of an effect, as I would imagine those voters who feel that strongly about the issue of women's status in society wouldn't vote Republican anyway. I had another reason why it wasn't so great a move but I forgot >.<
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:46 am

I think the stealing of Obama's thunder, at least for convention season was the key issue. That and the woman votes thing doesn't really say much for her abilities as a VP.

In her defence, what record she has is pretty good. Very anti-corruption that's all I can gather. As the mother of a son in the army and mother of a child with Downs Syndrome, she could do well to represent the parents of these two categories that get so little attention.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:16 am

Her main purpose is to energise the Republican base, which despite some grumblings (there is always going to be some) appears to have worked. McCain took more donations in a single day than Obama.

The timing was clever and Obama's team was not expecting her to be chosen. They were wrong footed and were knocked off the news.

I don't think she is meant to specifically attract Clinton's sisterhood, but she may appeal to some of that support. I think she would have more appeal to the working mums, slightly younger group, more conservative types, but like Clinton would probably be well received in the small towns across those key swing states that Clinton won. The people that Obama described as bitter. In some of the small towns Clinton was getting over 80% support!

She has about as little experience as Obama, though more executive experience, and appears to have achieved more. Her relative inexperience will lessen the ability to attack Obama on that score. However an interesting comment on P.ie which I think would make a very destructive attack add would be to run one on the theme, "who's going to run the country if something happens to Joe Biden?". Neatly puts the whole thing on its head.

I think Obama made a major mistake not having the good grace to nominate Clinton as VP especially in such a close race and with a divided party. He may pay for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:02 am

Indeed Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton would have been a fantastic ticket and unless God himself was McCain's VP the reps couldn't hold a candle to those two. It would have gotten the entire democratic party behind them.

I still think Obama is full of shite though.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:49 am

cookiemonster wrote:
Indeed Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton would have been a fantastic ticket and unless God himself was McCain's VP the reps couldn't hold a candle to those two. It would have gotten the entire democratic party behind them.

I still think Obama is full of shite though.

I agree it was the obvious choice, but arrogance, pride, stupidity, who knows what.

My opinion of him is a lot lower than yours, there is something about his body language that just reeks of insincerity. I doubt if he believes half the words he utters. Would feel a lot happier about him if he was in office for another 4 years and a few decisions under his belt. Who in their 40's writes books about themselves? Who constantly turns up to vote present? As for judgement*??** How oh how did the Democrats get where they are now?

Palin has apparently signed some Bill authorising a pipeline deal with Canada and has had communications with the Russians over fishing. All a bit sketchy, to many zealots claiming she did wonders and even more saying it is all a load of rubbish. My instincts suggest that she definitely did something and that Obama acolytes seem unwilling to accept that she may actually have achieves more than their great hope. However on a scale of 1-10 its down near 1. The sensitivity of Obama's people merely suggests his own rating is even lower.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:53 am

I really hope this turns out to be an irrelevant question insofar as I hope events will run for the Democrats and the Republicans attempt at holding on to the White House becomes impossible.

But that is just hoping. She is from Alaska which is not a typical US state. She may be seen as something of an outsider by mainstream America but at the end of the day I don't care one way or another. She is a Republican so I just want her to lose every election she ever contests. Like I do all Republicans.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:16 am

The republican ticket is now a complete joke. This is a cynical attempt to attract Hilary voters, and it may work to some extent, but can you picture this pair running America ?
From what I can see, Palin is not even qualified to push McCains wheelchair around.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:13 pm

She has just revealed that her 17 year old, unmarried, daughter is 5 months pregnant. That'll go down well with the American right!
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2944356420080901
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:30 pm

My feeling on the matter is that it was a completely bone-headed idea for five reasons.

1. It`ll mean that the republicans won`t be able to attack Obama`s lack of experience.

2. It will highlight McCain`s age. "Who`s that standing beside the President? Is it his daughter? His daugher`s daughter?" etc.

3. She`s from a tiny state (population terms) with little in common with other states.

4. It`ll steer the republican campaign towards the concept of change but why vote for the party that`s been in government for eight years if you want change.

5. If McCain kicks the bucket and he might not even last until November with the strain of electioneering and travel. She`ll be in charge.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:58 pm

Squire wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:
Indeed Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton would have been a fantastic ticket and unless God himself was McCain's VP the reps couldn't hold a candle to those two. It would have gotten the entire democratic party behind them.

I still think Obama is full of shite though.

I agree it was the obvious choice, but arrogance, pride, stupidity, who knows what.

My opinion of him is a lot lower than yours, there is something about his body language that just reeks of insincerity. I doubt if he believes half the words he utters. Would feel a lot happier about him if he was in office for another 4 years and a few decisions under his belt. Who in their 40's writes books about themselves? Who constantly turns up to vote present? As for judgement*??** How oh how did the Democrats get where they are now?

Palin has apparently signed some Bill authorising a pipeline deal with Canada and has had communications with the Russians over fishing. All a bit sketchy, to many zealots claiming she did wonders and even more saying it is all a load of rubbish. My instincts suggest that she definitely did something and that Obama acolytes seem unwilling to accept that she may actually have achieves more than their great hope. However on a scale of 1-10 its down near 1. The sensitivity of Obama's people merely suggests his own rating is even lower.

"Who constantly turns up to vote present ?" That's a very good question. Some people do it to collect expenses (our Councillors).
I think it would need someone who knows the nitty gritty of US politics to answer that.

Does voting present mean never taking a side ? Didn't he vote against the Iraq war?
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:48 pm

anmajornarthainig wrote:
My feeling on the matter is that it was a completely bone-headed idea for five reasons.

1. It`ll mean that the republicans won`t be able to attack Obama`s lack of experience.

2. It will highlight McCain`s age. "Who`s that standing beside the President? Is it his daughter? His daugher`s daughter?" etc.

3. She`s from a tiny state (population terms) with little in common with other states.

4. It`ll steer the republican campaign towards the concept of change but why vote for the party that`s been in government for eight years if you want change.

5. If McCain kicks the bucket and he might not even last until November with the strain of electioneering and travel. She`ll be in charge.

Good analysis. Michael Stipe of REM fame will quit the US if McCain is elected

Quote :
REM frontman Michael Stipe has threatened to quit America if Senator John McCain is elected President.

The singer - who has recorded a song for McCain's Democratic rival Barack Obama - will move to the UK if America picks the Republican candidate at the upcoming November elections.

Stipe says: "He served his country and he did a good job as a serviceman, I will honour him for that, but he is not presidential material."

He adds: "I'd have to move to England".
http://www.breakingnews.ie/entertainment/mhqlojidqlcw/

He's worse than Sidewinder running away when Fianna Fail got elected last year Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:57 pm

Thanks Audi. I don`t think that Palin`s daughter by herself is going to defer too many Republicans to be honest .The reason is that in terms of their Christianity they are total hypocrites. They hate the democrats and thats what counts. They`d have made hay if it had happened to Chelsea Clinton but when it happens to one of their own they`ll stay very hush about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:05 pm

Do you not think that is just standard politics though anmajornarthainig? Whether it is right or not is a different matter. However, both sides have their own sanctimony in their particular positions and they capitalise at any opportunity on the other side's misfortune. It is the same the world over and in all political parties.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:46 pm

I think the last item is their own private business. Apparently it became a press issue because of blogging pressures. Shame on you bloggers -wasting the blogosphere on this trivia whilst the Republicans are destroying the world!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:37 pm

To balance out the idea that Republicans can't critices Obama on his age/inexperience anymore, Democrats can't criticise McCain on the grounds that he's on death's doorstep, as that death would be putting someone young and 'changey' in the big house.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:03 pm

The LA Times is reporting that the McCain Campaign did not conduct a particularly exhaustive vetting process.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

Its hard to say whether she was a good choice. I think it is interesting because it signals a return to the Bush strategy of the 51% candidate. McCain worried the Democrats because he has always been seen as a bi-partisan operator with limited time for the 'god, guns and gays' coalition that Karl Rove put together. The fact that McCain chose a VP that appeals directly to that constituency, and not a centrist candidate suggests to me that there will be a lot of strategic similarities in the Bush and McCain election campaigns. That notion is reinforced when one looks at who McCain is taking advice from at this stage in the campaign.

I don't think the pregnancy thing will hurt her in the least. Hillary fans wouldn't have voted for her anyway and the firm moral hand with the wayward daughter should play well in the south.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:26 pm

johnfás wrote:
Do you not think that is just standard politics though anmajornarthainig? Whether it is right or not is a different matter. However, both sides have their own sanctimony in their particular positions and they capitalise at any opportunity on the other side's misfortune. It is the same the world over and in all political parties.

I don`t think it is the same the world over, but I do think that all nations have the capacity to allow people who behave in this manner to take over politics. I think that consensus politics tends to lead away from that sort of behaviour and I think that where politics is dominated by ideology, oddly enough, it leads to that behaviour because rather than just focus on the issues in which the opposing ideology is "wrong" political fanatics feel that it is their duty to destroy the moral credibilty of the other side on all issues. The more charged the public debate the shriller the fanatics and the more desperate to latch onto anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:28 pm

Regarding the above text it`s the difference between Machine Nation and politics.ie Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:53 pm

For a mother of five, based in Alaska, to accept the nomination suggests to me that either she is an extremely ambitious woman of the Thatcher mold, or else she wants a holiday.
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PostSubject: Re: Palin for VP - Inspired or Disastrous?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:25 pm

I was thinking about this today over coffee (I get coffee breaks now, it's great) and the more I thought about it the better choice she seems. I do, however, suspect that she wasn't McCain's choice or at least not his first.

Rush Limbaugh, pulse of the conservatives, described her as being "guns, babies and jesus" the three things that the US conservative christian right live and breath. So, naturally they love here (see McCain fundraisaing the day she was announced as his VP choice) added to that her being a woman (which would carry some of the Hillarista vote over) and she is a woman so she's taking some of the wind from Obama's "change" sail.

What got Bush elected both times, 00 and 04, was the support from the christian right. McCain isn't the hard line republican they want but Palin gives them the voice in the white house they require for their support to swing for McCain. Plus while she is relatively unknown to most outside Alaska she IS well known among the christian-right hawks in the GOP.

So, if she sparks off well and ignites the fire withing the party (which I think she will) we may well see another republican white house.
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