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 On This Day 15th August in Irish History

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PostSubject: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:14 am

1599- The Battle of the Curlew Pass fought in Co. Roscommon. Robert Devereux, Earl of Essex took over as Lord Lieutenant of Ireland in April 1599. His mission was to subdue the rebellion of the Ulster chiefs, now in it’s sixth year. As part of the mission he encouraged one of the Irish Chieftains loyal to the Crown, Donogh O’Connor of Sligo, to push the O’Donnells back out of those parts of his territory they had occupied and strike north to Ballyshannon as a preliminary to an invasion of western Ulster.

To assist in this invasion a force was despatched from Galway to Sligo commanded by Tibbot na Long Burke. Hugh O’Donnell launched a pre-emptive attack and besieged O’Connor in Collooney Castle, sending 600 men to occupy Sligo town to prevent the English landing. Essex then ordered a force north from Athlone commanded by Conyers Clifford to relieve Collooney Castle.

Getting word of the English advance O’Donnell left 300 men besieging the castle and marched south with 1500 troops to Dunavaragh, Co. Roscommon. Here he was joined by a small number of reinforcements under Conor MacDermott and Brian Óg O'Rourke. Ambush sites were prepared at two passes through the Curlew Mountains, along the English line of march. O’Donnell had trees felled and placed along the road to impede the English progress. As soon as the enemy passed through Boyle and headed for the western pass, O’Donnell positioned his troops. Musketeers, archers and javelin men were placed in the woods alongside the road to harass the English while the main body of infantry, armed with pikes and axes, were placed out of sight behind a mountain ridge.

Meanwhile Clifford’s troops had reached the mountains at 4pm on 15th August. Rather than rest in Boyle, Clifford, believing the pass undefended, decided to press on and cross the mountain that evening. They reached the first barricade between Boyle and Ballinafad where they were attacked by the Irish soldiers. The Irish fired one volley and withdrew but as soona s the English had crossed the barricade they came under immediate harrassing fire from the woods to the side of the road. As they advanced the fire became heavier and heavier until at last the English halted and engaged in a firefight lasting an hour and a half before they ran out of powder. At that moment O’Rourke and his men, who had been stationed at the eastern pass, arrived to reinforce the Irish soldiers. The English broke and fled at this point, although their leader, Alexander Radcliffe, died leading a pike charge against the Irish.

The retreating soldiers crashed into the main body of English troops causing mayhem in the ranks whereupon the Irish, concealed behind the hill, charged them. In the ensuing melee, the English commander, Clifford, was piked to death. The English fled in disarray, a complete rout being averted by an uphill cavalry charge led by Sir Griffin Markham and his cousin John Harrington. The English were pursued back to Boyle where they sought sanctuary in Boyle Abbey. In all they lost 500 men dead. Clifford’s head was hacked from his body and HugH O’Donnell brought it back to Collooney Castle to encourage O’Connor to surrender, which he did. In addition O’Connor defected from the English camp. With the north west invasion route closed, Essex was left with the option of forcing his way into Ulster through the north east. Instead he agreed a truce with O’Neill and returned to England where he was later tried for treason and executed. His failure in Ireland did not lead directly to his fall from grace but it didn’t help.

The Curlew Pass was the scene of a second Irish victory in August 1602.

1649- Oliver Cromwell landed in Ireland with an army of 20,000 men.

1843- Daniel O'Connell held meetings for the Repeal of the
Union
, attended by hundreds of thousands, at Trim and the Hill of Tara.

1857- At
Khurkowdah, India, during the Mutiny, Major Charles Gough saved the life of his brother , Hugh, who was wounded, and killed two of the enemy. On 18 August he led a troop of Cavalry in a charge and sabred two of the enemy. On 27 January 1858, in a charge, he attacked one of the enemy's leaders and pierced him with his sword which was carried out of his hand in the melee. He defended himself with his revolver and shot two of the enemy. On 23 February at Meangunge he went to the assistance of a major and killed his opponent. For the above actions Charles Gough from Conmel, Co. Tipperary won a Victoria Cross. His brother Hugh also earned a VC in the Mutiny and his son John was awarded one in Somaliland
in 1903. The Goughs are the only family to have won three VCs.

Charles Gough died in 1912 and is buried in St. Patrick’s Cemetery, Clonmel. He was also the father of Hubert Gough of Curragh Mutiny fame. Hugh died in the
Tower of London, where he was Constable of the Tower in 1909. John Gough was killed in France in 1915. Another famous relation was a great Uncle, another Hugh, who served in the Peninsular War and commanded the armies in China
and the Sikh Wars.

1917- Pte Michael O'Rourke earned a Victoria Cross, when, as a stretcher-bearer in 7th Bn, British Columbia Regt, he worked non-stop for three days and nights bringing in wounded, dressing their wounds and getting them food and water. All during this time, the area in which he worked was swept by heavy fire and on several occasions he was knocked down and even buried by enemy shells. Annoyingly this Irish soldier is claimed by
Canada
.

As part of the Canadian Corps Michael was taking part in an offensive in the Lens area designed to capture Hill 70 from the Germans, Which they did at a cost of over 5,800 dead and wounded. The attack was timed to coincide with the Langemarck attack the following day at
Ypres
. It would secure the British flank and keep German reinforcements occupied. The Germans counter attacked no less than 21 times in attempts to recapture Hill 70. The Canadians used wireless communications for the first time in battle in this operation. While the Germans deployed recently developed Mustard gas and flamethrowers.

1998- In Omagh a Real IRA car-bomb killed 29 people and wounded 220.hs


Births

1888- T.E. Lawrence, (Lawrence of Arabia) was born in Tremadoc, Wales.

1919- Benedict Kiely, author. Born Co. Tyrone.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:22 pm

Lestat wrote:
1998- In Omagh a Real IRA car-bomb killed 29 people and wounded 220.hs

I remember it like it were yesterday. One of our closest family friends was the Methodist Minister in Omagh at the time. One of the most disgusting acts in Irish history in the last 50 years.

Interestingly the same minister's brother, another family friend, was one of the independent witnesses to the decomissioning of IRA weapons.

Quote :
Births

1888- T.E. Lawrence, (Lawrence of Arabia) was born in Tremadoc, Wales.

One of my favourite quotations is by T.E. Lawrence in his book Seven Pillars of Wisdom:

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the
dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with
open eyes to make it possible."
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:01 pm


1857- At
Khurkowdah, India, during the Mutiny, Major Charles Gough saved the life of his brother , Hugh, who was wounded, and killed two of the enemy. On 18 August he led a troop of Cavalry in a charge and sabred two of the enemy. On 27 January 1858, in a charge, he attacked one of the enemy's leaders and pierced him with his sword which was carried out of his hand in the melee. He defended himself with his revolver and shot two of the enemy. On 23 February at Meangunge he went to the assistance of a major and killed his opponent. For the above actions Charles Gough from Conmel, Co. Tipperary won a Victoria Cross. His brother Hugh also earned a VC in the Mutiny and his son John was awarded one in Somaliland
in 1903. The Goughs are the only family to have won three VCs.

Charles Gough died in 1912 and is buried in St. Patrick’s Cemetery, Clonmel. He was also the father of Hubert Gough of Curragh Mutiny fame. Hugh died in the
Tower of London, where he was Constable of the Tower in 1909. John Gough was killed in France in 1915. Another famous relation was a great Uncle, another Hugh, who served in the Peninsular War and commanded the armies in China
and the Sikh Wars.




Very interesting to know but certainly no reason for pride. The term Mutiny is a misnomer. Funny how, in 'A History of Britain' by Simon Schama, he covers the famine and this "mutiny" together under the title "The Empire of Good Intentions".

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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:44 pm

johnfás wrote:
Lestat wrote:
1998- In Omagh a Real IRA car-bomb killed 29 people and wounded 220.hs

I remember it like it were yesterday. One of our closest family friends was the Methodist Minister in Omagh at the time. One of the most disgusting acts in Irish history in the last 50 years.

Interestingly the same minister's brother, another family friend, was one of the independent witnesses to the decomissioning of IRA weapons.

Quote :
Births

1888- T.E. Lawrence, (Lawrence of Arabia) was born in Tremadoc, Wales.

One of my favourite quotations is by T.E. Lawrence in his book Seven Pillars of Wisdom:

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the
dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with
open eyes to make it possible."

There was nothing to justify blowing babies up. Collateral damage when people were defending themselves it could have been understood, but nobody's life was under threat. I can't think of any case of individual terror leading to good social change. It is far more often used as an excuse to oppress people and to divide them and it seems likely that the British Government has benefitted from Omagh as it was used to divest credibility of Republican opponents of Sinn Fein.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:01 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Very interesting to know but certainly no reason for pride.


Why?

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
The term Mutiny is a misnomer.

Why again? It began as a mutiny amongst troops of the Bengal Army. Indian revisionists try to paint it as an Indian War of Independence, which it wasn't.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:46 pm

Lestat wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Very interesting to know but certainly no reason for pride.


Why?

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
The term Mutiny is a misnomer.

Why again? It began as a mutiny amongst troops of the Bengal Army. Indian revisionists try to paint it as an Indian War of Independence, which it wasn't.

Is it not obvious why? I have no interest in commemorating Irishmen who received baubles from the the British Empire for putting down native uprisings. Erecting monuments to people like Cornelius Coughlin and Francis Drake and revisionist denigrating of attempts by native people to throw off the yoke of their oppressors is just nauseating.

Interestingly, a Bernard Diamond from my locality won a VC during the "Indian Mutiny" but I most certainly wouldn't celebrate that with pride.

I note you use the term "Indian revisionists" as if that proves that it was but a mutiny. If the "mutiny" had succeeded would they (the mutineers) have been happy to take orders from new officers sent by the Britishers?
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:04 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Is it not obvious why? I have no interest in commemorating Irishmen who received baubles from the the British Empire for putting down native uprisings.

Right. But I take it, since you are specific about the British Empire, that you have no problem with commemorating Irishmen who received medals from the the US for putting down risings by their native people. Or say, Irishmen who fought the British Empire on behalf of slave owning Americans in the 1770s or on behalf of the Boers in South Africa in 1899.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
If the "mutiny" had succeeded would they (the mutineers) have been happy to take orders from new officers sent by the Britishers?

Since the punishment for mutiny was death, replacing the officers wasn't an option.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:09 pm

Lestat wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
Is it not obvious why? I have no interest in commemorating Irishmen who received baubles from the the British Empire for putting down native uprisings.

Right. But I take it, since you are specific about the British Empire, that you have no problem with commemorating Irishmen who received medals from the the US for putting down risings by their native people. Or say, Irishmen who fought the British Empire on behalf of slave owning Americans in the 1770s or on behalf of the Boers in South Africa in 1899.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
If the "mutiny" had succeeded would they (the mutineers) have been happy to take orders from new officers sent by the Britishers?

Since the punishment for mutiny was death, replacing the officers wasn't an option.

You take it wrongly. I'd lump all empires in there and all of a colonial bent. Again they are interesting developments in history but neither John Mc Bride galloping around the Natal nor those of Irish stock who maintained slavery are a particular source of pride to me.

It is not I who seems to be very much taken with the British Empire and it's Irish lackies.

I think you should ask Indians from India what they thought it was. I have a friend from Mumbai who was thoroughly disgusted by the display in Collin's Barracks Museum celebrating Irishmen's participation in the butchery that was the English response to this native uprising. I'd recomend you getting your history from more than "irishmilitaryonline" because it does seem like "Groundhog" day as far as lists of so-called patriot dead are concerned.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:54 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
It is not I who seems to be very much taken with the British Empire and it's Irish lackies..

So it's the British aspect that's the problem then.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
I think you should ask Indians from India what they thought it was. I have a friend from Mumbai who was thoroughly disgusted by the display in Collin's Barracks Museum celebrating Irishmen's participation in the butchery that was the English response to this native uprising.

Did you ask him what he thought of his countrymen killing the wives and children of the British officers and colonial administrators? I'm pretty sure if you visited a museum in India you wouldn't get a very even handed version of events either.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
I'd recomend you getting your history from more than "irishmilitaryonline" because it does seem like "Groundhog" day as far as lists of so-called patriot dead are concerned.

Well if you read that thread then you'd know I edit and add to it before posting here. But of course if there's any event that you feel should be added on any particular day you're quite free to do so yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:01 pm

I`d be with Seathrún when it comes to the British or any empire but I sense a bit of frustration in your last post there Lestat so I would like to thank you at the same time for the effort that you`re making with these threads everyday.

My birthday is coming up on the twentieth by the way. 1978 I was born. I expect that this will lake a list of the most important events of that date. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:05 pm

Firstly I would like to add to the above comments(anmajornarthainig's) regarding your efforts as I also find them very interesting and do genuinely appreciate the effort.

But the celebration(not the discussion or study) of colonial exploits by Irishmen involved in propping up a regime that suppressed people in their own country is stomach churning to me.

I do have a problem with empires and in particular the British Empire and indeed it's legacy and what's left of it.Why wouldn't I given I grew up in the sick counties?

I'm sure the sepoys didn't spare the rod but if the Britshers hadn't been there in the first place they wouldn't have had to endure such cruelities.

The Britsh Regime didn't cover themselves in any glory raking up the corpses of the sepoy dead when the photographers arrived late looking for snaps.

As far as the "Mutiny debate" is concerned why are Indians not permitted to call it a revolt? It's their history. One man's Imeacht na n-Iarlaí (leaving of the Earls) is another man's Flight of the Earls. Manassas to one combatant was Bull run to the other.

I found your article on the battle of the Curlew Pass excellent but your bit about the being annoyed that the Canadians had claimed an Irish VC was a just a tad , shall we say, zealous.

My great uncle died at Galipoli as a member of the ANZACs and I have what is available of his army record from that excellent Australian government website. I wouldn't boast about it but I'm not ashamed of it either. Interestingly he had left Ireland with his brother after being involved in an altercation with Orangemen. I don't think he joined up out of a sense or love of empire.

Keep up the great work and I'll post anything I come across.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:13 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
But the celebration(not the discussion or study) of colonial exploits by Irishmen involved in propping up a regime that suppressed people in their own country is stomach churning to me.

Mentioning an event on this thread is hardly a celebration, whether it be the action that earned an Irishman a Victoria Cross or the action that murdered 29 people in Omagh.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
As far as the "Mutiny debate" is concerned why are Indians not permitted to call it a revolt? It's their history. .

They can call it what they like. It's historically inaccurate in my opinion.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
but your bit about the being annoyed that the Canadians had claimed an Irish VC was a just a tad , shall we say, zealous..

You shouldn't take all my comments that seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: On This Day 15th August in Irish History   Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:27 pm

Lestat wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
But the celebration(not the discussion or study) of colonial exploits by Irishmen involved in propping up a regime that suppressed people in their own country is stomach churning to me.

Mentioning an event on this thread is hardly a celebration, whether it be the action that earned an Irishman a Victoria Cross or the action that murdered 29 people in Omagh.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
As far as the "Mutiny debate" is concerned why are Indians not permitted to call it a revolt? It's their history. .

They can call it what they like. It's historically inaccurate in my opinion.

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
but your bit about the being annoyed that the Canadians had claimed an Irish VC was a just a tad , shall we say, zealous..

You shouldn't take all my comments that seriously.

Ah now...fair points....but you'd have to say your tone was a tad, shall we say, celebratory. I take very little seriously as most of my posts would indicate but I do enjoy running things up flagpoles(not the butcher's apron) from time to time and see how they flutter.

Needless to say as Seamus Heaney put it "there was never a glass raised in our house to toast the Queen".

I'll demure on the Omagh reference.
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