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 Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?

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PostSubject: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:43 pm

http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlmhojsnkf/

This is a fascinating report from Australia - the country is being stripped out of copper for scrap.

An enormous Henry Moore bronze sculpture was nicked and sold for scrap last year in the U.K.

After the invasion of Iraq copper wiring and piping was stolen and infrastructure hit for six.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:49 pm

I heard that there are thousands (literally) of manhole covers being robbed throughout North America and Britain and being sold to smelters for scrap.

According to the Sun - quality paper that it is [not] - there were 50,000 such robberies in Britain last year costing the tax payer £1.5 million.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1557027.ece
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:50 pm

Yippee - I've got about 1/2 a ton of copper wiring that I've been salvaging from the plant dismantling and I've been told to dispose of- well that might pay for the going away drinkies in a few months time.

Anybody any idea what the going rate is here for unprocessed (ie still in plastic sleeves) scrap copper wiring is per kilo?
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:42 pm

Yep, scour your local papers and you'll find lots of reports of coppercrime. So I hope you have it well hidden, Edo.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:29 pm

Lead, nickel, tin and zinc are all in limited supply. If you have a passion for metals, lots on this site.

http://www.basemetals.com/

Life is too short, all I know is that the leadwork on squire hall had better last another 100 years.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:55 pm

The Chinese don't fook about when it comes to sourcing copper

Watch here

They get copper at $400/ton and the current world value is over $7300/ton at the moment
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:19 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
The Chinese don't fook about when it comes to sourcing copper

Watch here

They get copper at $400/ton and the current world value is over $7300/ton at the moment

That is well worth reading, SeathrúnCeitinn. It reminds me of what has happened to Ireland's off shore gas resources: hundreds of billions at stake - the names Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern come up.

http://www.wsm.ie/news_viewer/2187
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:27 pm

cactus flower wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
The Chinese don't fook about when it comes to sourcing copper

Watch here

They get copper at $400/ton and the current world value is over $7300/ton at the moment

That is well worth reading, SeathrúnCeitinn. It reminds me of what has happened to Ireland's off shore gas resources: hundreds of billions at stake - the names Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern come up.

http://www.wsm.ie/news_viewer/2187

Pity that some rte hack wouldn't cover similar stories in our own country. I'd invite John Simpson over here to investigate but the cynic in me thinks that the subtext to the report was more about the threat that the Chinese pose economically than the natives of the town they want to shift in order to tumble the mountain.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:30 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
cactus flower wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:
The Chinese don't fook about when it comes to sourcing copper

Watch here

They get copper at $400/ton and the current world value is over $7300/ton at the moment

That is well worth reading, SeathrúnCeitinn. It reminds me of what has happened to Ireland's off shore gas resources: hundreds of billions at stake - the names Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern come up.

http://www.wsm.ie/news_viewer/2187

Pity that some rte hack wouldn't cover similar stories in our own country. I'd invite John Simpson over here to investigate but the cynic in me thinks that the subtext to the report was more about the threat that the Chinese pose economically than the natives of the town they want to shift in order to tumble the mountain.

Yes, a bit of nostalgia for the old Empire there sure enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:47 pm

John Simpson is a fairly free thinking sort of person. Yes he benefited from a good education as is obvious in some of his reporting, but he will state fairly uncomfortable truths. One of the better foreign correspondents.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:07 pm

Squire wrote:
John Simpson is a fairly free thinking sort of person. Yes he benefited from a good education as is obvious in some of his reporting, but he will state fairly uncomfortable truths. One of the better foreign correspondents.

I have enjoyed some of his reports over the years but I'm sure he didn't source this story directly from the soon to be displaced.

"John, old boy, Peregrine Fortescue from the British Embassy in Lima. I believe you're paying us a visit soon. ...You might find it worthwhile scrutinising what those beastly fiendish orientals are up to down here......pink g & t's at the reception.....of course......don't you know etc"

Saying that it was a story worth knowing
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:09 pm

Kate P wrote:
Yep, scour your local papers and you'll find lots of reports of coppercrime. So I hope you have it well hidden, Edo.

Its under lock and key Kate.

Better flog it in the next couple of months tho - I had a feeling that the speculation in these commodities has produced a bubble effect similar to oil and I fully expect there to be quite a dramatic fall in the price of these metals by this time next year.

Why?

Bad economic news from Japan and Germany - while China, India and other emerging man may be the largest emerging manufacturers and consumers of base metals and commodities - Japan and Germany have been supplying the manufacturing technology,systems and heavy machinery to aid these countries - the fall off in activity in the last quarter in Germany and Japan has been quite stunning - indicating a fall of in demand for their products - (capital equipment producers always are about a 6-12 month cycle ahead of the rest of the economy) -indicating that China etc are not investing as much in their manufacturing systems - indicating that they may feel that their order books are a bit soft - on the back of slowing current and uncertain future demand for consumer products from the US and Europe and other developed economies - we are living in a global economy folks and as usual , as with the property meltdown - the speculators will keeping driving up the price of metals until sometime in the next six months - somebody will actually put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4 instead of 22 and see that the combination of slowing demand, increased and expanded production and increased recycling can only result in one thing - lower prices.

listening to the Beeb over lunch - they had a market sage on - - forget his name - they have him on now and again - and he pretty much called the credit meltdown last year - he pretty much agrees with my analysis and that a bubble burst is on the way in these markets.

hopefully it wont be as brutal as the early 80's - but some of the primary producers who are coasting along on high commodity prices and are doing feck all to diversify might get badly stung - and looking at the gallery of despots, dictators and totalitarian fellow travellers - it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people - pity about the collateral damage tho.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:29 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:42 pm

SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

I have enjoyed some of his reports over the years but I'm sure he didn't source this story directly from the soon to be displaced.

"John, old boy, Peregrine Fortescue from the British Embassy in Lima. I believe you're paying us a visit soon. ...You might find it worthwhile scrutinising what those beastly fiendish orientals are up to down here......pink g & t's at the reception.....of course......don't you know etc"

Saying that it was a story worth knowing

But of course that is how most 'news' is generated is it not? Catherine Nettleton may well have chosen to highlight the matter. I believe see worked in China on the economic end prior to Peru.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:52 pm

Well I'm off to sit on the roof of Monster Hall with my shot gun at the ready. Copper crime?! I ask you!
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:52 pm

Does this mean that the value of coinage is rising? Smile

I might just have to demand two penny sweets for my penny next time.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:05 pm

Squire wrote:
SeathrúnCeitinn wrote:

I have enjoyed some of his reports over the years but I'm sure he didn't source this story directly from the soon to be displaced.

"John, old boy, Peregrine Fortescue from the British Embassy in Lima. I believe you're paying us a visit soon. ...You might find it worthwhile scrutinising what those beastly fiendish orientals are up to down here......pink g & t's at the reception.....of course......don't you know etc"

Saying that it was a story worth knowing

But of course that is how most 'news' is generated is it not? Catherine Nettleton may well have chosen to highlight the matter. I believe see worked in China on the economic end prior to Peru.

And I was only caricaturing......yip the spirit of Mboto Gorge is alive and well......jolly good show, what?
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:09 pm

The world runs on old boy networks and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dreamer.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:11 am

A resource under pressure like copper could be relieved by the like of this below - a wireless light switch!



Apparently the biggest problem with wireless light switches was that the light switch itself needs to be powered with batteries or something. These batteries eventually run down (big deal?) but somone created a light switch which works like my Seiko Kinetic Auto Relay® wrist-watch - using it powers it up! Some little generator gets turned as you flick the switch in there and that provides power to a battery... very simple but very clever. When you you add up all the copper wires in your house going from lights to switches it doesn't amount to a bean can but take all of them in the world and you're looking at a small mountain. Plus they'd be very easy to install.

The more copper saved the cheaper the wind, wave and tidal turbines Wink

Quote :
There's a new way of wiring your lights...and it doesn't involve wires. Pretty freakin' cool actually. Right now, your light switch has a physical connection to your light. When you flip the switch, a circuit is completed and the light turns on.

But connecting every light to every light switch basically requires twice as much wiring for a house's lighting system. That's just dumb.

Since the advent of remote control, people have been trying to figure out a way to have a light switch turn a light on and off without having to be physically connected to the light. Unfortunately, this has always required some kind of battery (to power the remote) and that battery would invariably die.

But now, EnOcean (a company that specializes in pulling power from ambient sources) has figured out a way to have the light switch be powered by you.

Every time you flip the switch, a tiny generator creates a tiny charge. That tiny charge powers a tiny remote control that sends out a tiny signal that can be received by the light. All from the "power" of your flipping. Pretty cool.

The first adopters of the technology will be folks looking to retrofit old (possibly historically significant) buildings. But peel-and-stick, no-wiring-needed electronics are needed everywhere...and having them be self-powering is a true green innovation.

Treehugger
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Silver is at 10 dollars an ounce and copper 1.84 a pound. Time to start investing in copper ? It just went up 10% on the back of the Chinese injection

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602013&sid=a2lKwU3FXAPI&refer=commodity_futures


Last edited by Auditor #9 on Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:27 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
A resource under pressure like copper could be relieved by the like of this below - a wireless light switch!



Apparently the biggest problem with wireless light switches was that the light switch itself needs to be powered with batteries or something. These batteries eventually run down (big deal?) but somone created a light switch which works like my Seiko Kinetic Auto Relay® wrist-watch - using it powers it up! Some little generator gets turned as you flick the switch in there and that provides power to a battery... very simple but very clever. When you you add up all the copper wires in your house going from lights to switches it doesn't amount to a bean can but take all of them in the world and you're looking at a small mountain. Plus they'd be very easy to install.

The more copper saved the cheaper the wind, wave and tidal turbines Wink

Quote :
There's a new way of wiring your lights...and it doesn't involve wires. Pretty freakin' cool actually. Right now, your light switch has a physical connection to your light. When you flip the switch, a circuit is completed and the light turns on.

But connecting every light to every light switch basically requires twice as much wiring for a house's lighting system. That's just dumb.

Since the advent of remote control, people have been trying to figure out a way to have a light switch turn a light on and off without having to be physically connected to the light. Unfortunately, this has always required some kind of battery (to power the remote) and that battery would invariably die.

But now, EnOcean (a company that specializes in pulling power from ambient sources) has figured out a way to have the light switch be powered by you.

Every time you flip the switch, a tiny generator creates a tiny charge. That tiny charge powers a tiny remote control that sends out a tiny signal that can be received by the light. All from the "power" of your flipping. Pretty cool.

The first adopters of the technology will be folks looking to retrofit old (possibly historically significant) buildings. But peel-and-stick, no-wiring-needed electronics are needed everywhere...and having them be self-powering is a true green innovation.

Treehugger

I love this idea Auditor #9 - we are using far too little of our own energy - that's why my favourite devices of the lot are the bike and the wind up radio. This sounds so simple and useful and with a lot of applications - I'd deffo buy a share in it if I could.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:53 am

No shortage of copper .... so go and short copper

This guy says there are millions and millions of tons of copper and aluminium piling up and that there is a correlation between stockpiles of copper and Great Depressions. More Horrornomics from one of the Masters or does this make sense?

Copper is an excellent conductor of electricity and is used in practically everything nowadays as almost everything has some electricity in it. Unless someone somewhere has found an adequate substitute then it looks like demand for copper and therefore manufacturing is virtually nil and could be like that for 6-8 years because copper follows that length of a recovery cycle.

Maybe our recycling has scaled new heights of efficiency or maybe the planet just needed a rest ...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8TzGyEZo-8
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:17 am

Copper will rise when we come out of the depression. It is utterly essential.
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:18 am

It certainly makes sense that copper demand would be tied to manufacturing activity. What doesn't make sense to me in all that is the idea that a spike in copper supplies occurring prior to a recession. Indeed, if manufacturing slows down in a recession, then copper stockpiles might increase as a result of a recession, unless manufacturing actually grinds to a halt a while before the economic downturn actually begins in the eyes of the layman?
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PostSubject: Re: Copper Shortage - another Resource at its Limits ?   Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:25 am

johnfás wrote:
Does this mean that the value of coinage is rising? Smile

I might just have to demand two penny sweets for my penny next time.
I heard that, in the US anyway, there are significant penalties for melting down coins to sell the metal.
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