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 Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?

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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:15 am

They don't appeal to me either and the Georgian can go to Hell. They should have been glad to get independence and now they are stirring it.

I got rid of cable at the wrong time as I read that Fox news does not like Palin. If this is correct then we should like her,
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:16 am

expat girl wrote:
youngdan wrote:
I doubt he knew nothing of his brother who he met and knew existed and if he never asked about his well being it is even worse. Don't get me wrong nothing would be worse than McCain because Obama is just a fruitcake but McCain is in fact unhinged and a bully. His temper is well known to his collegues and a pig is a good name for him.

Getting back to the Pastor. He deserves serious study. He believes Aids is a man made disease race specific to black people. What do you think of that ?

I hope Obama gets his act together soon. Sarah Palin is threatening the Russians over Georgia. Nuclear wars don't appeal to me, thanks, and I don't think our economies need the excitement of Putin turning off the oil/gas taps.


Palin comes on like another Thatcher. McCain looks as though he's held together with baling twine. Obama doesn't look tough enough to stop a nuclear war. None of the prospects are enticing.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:38 am

Youngdan, why does Fox not like Palin??? would have thought she's the closest thing to a wet dream for thos boys... what's not for a rabid Republican to like?? I don't share her policies but somehow I have a hunch that she might go a long long way. Heard some clip this am where she managed to elegantly wriggle out of her Iraq war is from God comments and managed to quote Abe Lincoln in the process. I might be on the opposite side but one has to award points for technique. Since McCain has had cancer 4 times already, she might not just be the next VP.....I know his mother is still alive, but at what age did his father pass away??
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:48 am

youngdan wrote:
They don't appeal to me either and the Georgian can go to Hell. They should have been glad to get independence and now they are stirring it.

I got rid of cable at the wrong time as I read that Fox news does not like Palin. If this is correct then we should like her,

Fox doesn't draw breath from trashing Obama these days. I don't think they have time to think about her.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:07 pm

youngdan wrote:
I doubt he knew nothing of his brother who he met and knew existed and if he never asked about his well being it is even worse. Don't get me wrong nothing would be worse than McCain because Obama is just a fruitcake but McCain is in fact unhinged and a bully. His temper is well known to his collegues and a pig is a good name for him.

But who's to say he didn't as about him. As I said, he is from a different mother to his other brothers and sisters. They mightn't have known about him either.

Quote :

Getting back to the Pastor. He deserves serious study. He believes Aids is a man made disease race specific to black people. What do you think of that ?

I think it's total garbage, but he wouldn't be the first to come to that conclusion.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:21 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Palin comes on like another Thatcher. McCain looks as though he's held together with baling twine. Obama doesn't look tough enough to stop a nuclear war. None of the prospects are enticing.

You really have to wonder how a country the size of the USA comes up with a selection like this.

Obama and McCain are both seriously bad choices. Some of the worries I have setting aside what both claim to be for;

McCain
Wars do strange things to people and people who have been through serious trauma are ofhen never quite the same. Post traumatic stress disorder is a serious ailment. It was once explained to me like this; often to motivate you need adrenaline to get you going. The more adrenaline the more you respond, up to a point, and then the effect is negative. It is the classic bell shaped curve. Once you get over the peak your responses can be anything but normal. You can be aggressive, or indecisive and act like a cat caught in headlights. With each person it is different. Apparently when someone is in a serious trauma they enter the bell shaped curve a lot higher up than most people so stress reduces efficiency and judgement.

For many people I think they carry that with them the rest of their life and that is part of the reason why so many vets find it hard to adjust back to normal life. They bear physological scars. The results are not necessarily entirely negative as such people can feel empathy for others and it can motivate some to seek change, but they can also carry pain, anger and insecurity.

Which brings us to McCain. Being captive and shot out of the skies cannot not have been a pleasant experience, does he carry with him anger and bitterness from those days? I would like to see him do a very long interview of about 2-3 hours 'hard talk style' with a very well prepared journalist specifically on foreign policy. I would like to see how he responds when he is tested under pressure. He has a foul temper and that is not an attribute. He worries me, but I don't think he has the sheer vileness of Bush junior. I think in his own terms he means well but his judgement under pressure???

Obama
My own childhood was a lot stranger than Obama's. Security in childhood is important. To me he seems like a person who is deeply unsure of himself. He would talk and talk around a subject other than make a decision or come to a conclusion. How does anyone turn up and vote present over and over and over? He also strikes me as a person who has not come to terms with himself and his place in the scheme of things. Why else would a relatively young man write several autobiographies? He has something to prove. He is fundamentally about self and his arrogance and pride are symptoms. The treatment of his brother is fair indication of how much he cares about others and his associations with people like Wright should be seen merely as useful to Obama, as stepping stones. I do not trust him, nor believe much of what he says and I doubt his judgement, sincerity and veracity. Clinton for all her faults was sounder ground.

To me both Obama and McCain are dire on issues relating to foreign policy. Their arguments are neither consistent nor coherent. Their policies do not equate with the type of world order I want. Same problem applies on economics. I don't believe either of them are fit for that job. I am strongly of that opinion.

Biden I can sort of relate to though his flights into Zionism leave me cold.

Palin, religious fundamentalism of any type repels. In fact I have reason to dislike religious extremists, particularly of the Christian variety. There are so many contradictions in all religions and the difference between what is preached and believers do is breath taking. There is a fair measure of intolerance and extreme religion tends to attract some very undesirable people. Most religions seem to want to impose their dogma on others. My initial response to Huckabee was 'not another', but as the campaign went on you could see that this may well be a fundamentally decent person. I regret that he didn't beat McCain. With President Huck we could have all sat back on our rocking chairs on the veranda. I think he is a decent enough person despite his religion.

With Palin it is too early to judge just what motivates her. My initial impressions are that she is intensively competitive and low on compassion. She is possibly as hard as nails, but apparently some who know her say otherwise. She would probably be a very strong President but what sort of Presidency that would be? Unfortunately too early to say. I wouldn't trust too much of the gossip doing the rounds as it is decidedly partisan one way or the other. I would like to see an interview where she loosens up a bit, so we can gauge better her real values. The one we have currently on offer tells us only that she clever enough. It didn't feel natural or at ease.

With Clinton, who is full of bull, and all levels of falseness, it took us to the Appalachians before we could see her touch base. Where would Palin really fit in?
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:39 pm

I do not know if Fox is against Palin. Perhaps Palin is just what is needed.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:25 pm

youngdan wrote:
I do not know if Fox is against Palin. Perhaps Palin is just what is needed.

Fox released the story about her daughter being pregnant.

In fairness, I have a sneaking suspicion they are being hard on her so that everyone would feel sorry for her.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:49 pm

That story was already out I think before she was selected. There are divisions in the Republican camp, as in any political camp.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:34 pm

The country did not come up with these two, the media and party powerfull did. If Murdock concludes that Palin will not do Israel's bidding then it will be reflected on Fox. Israel has the US over a barrel because it can expose the truth about the USS Liberty attack in 1967. Were the public to know that LBJ wanted the crew dead so that Egypt could be nuked they would be rightly reluctant to believe the rubbish now.

Riadah I have newfound respect for Biden. He made a gaffe with the guy in the wheelchair but look at the gracious way he handled it. Even I like the guy. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=822385695831137422&ei=IsPKSJX2N5PiqQKe8szMAg&q=biden+wheelchair&vt=lf Obama would have made a disastor of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:45 pm

youngdan wrote:


Riadah I have newfound respect for Biden. He made a gaffe with the guy in the wheelchair but look at the gracious way he handled it. Even I like the guy. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=822385695831137422&ei=IsPKSJX2N5PiqQKe8szMAg&q=biden+wheelchair&vt=lf Obama would have made a disastor of this.

I would vote for Biden if he were running for President. At least he has substance. Obama is a empty vessel.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:18 am

youngdan wrote:
The country did not come up with these two, the media and party powerfull did. If Murdock concludes that Palin will not do Israel's bidding then it will be reflected on Fox. Israel has the US over a barrel because it can expose the truth about the USS Liberty attack in 1967. Were the public to know that LBJ wanted the crew dead so that Egypt could be nuked they would be rightly reluctant to believe the rubbish now.

Riadah I have newfound respect for Biden. He made a gaffe with the guy in the wheelchair but look at the gracious way he handled it. Even I like the guy. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=822385695831137422&ei=IsPKSJX2N5PiqQKe8szMAg&q=biden+wheelchair&vt=lf Obama would have made a disastor of this.

Rove is working for Fox and there is no sign of him being anti-Palinl. His buddy Eskew is writing her speeches.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:30 am

When all his said and done Biden has a clear understanding of Iraq. Regardless of the spin, it will be 3 separate countries.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:21 pm

Who would have believed it yet another close election. Even the Congressional contests are becoming more competitive, but suppose given the popularity rating of the place the Democrats can hardly expect to sit back on their laurels.

I would very much like to see one side or the other collapse. It needs an obnoxious and salacious scandal, something that makes one team utterly unelectable even for the average voter.

If that were to happen then there is a possibility that 3rd party candidates would get a large vote.

In the long run it is the 2 party system that needs to change. It serves only the interests of a few.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:04 pm

Squire wrote:
Who would have believed it yet another close election. Even the Congressional contests are becoming more competitive, but suppose given the popularity rating of the place the Democrats can hardly expect to sit back on their laurels.

I would very much like to see one side or the other collapse. It needs an obnoxious and salacious scandal, something that makes one team utterly unelectable even for the average voter.

If that were to happen then there is a possibility that 3rd party candidates would get a large vote.

In the long run it is the 2 party system that needs to change. It serves only the interests of a few.

Ron Paul?
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:06 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
Squire wrote:
Who would have believed it yet another close election. Even the Congressional contests are becoming more competitive, but suppose given the popularity rating of the place the Democrats can hardly expect to sit back on their laurels.

I would very much like to see one side or the other collapse. It needs an obnoxious and salacious scandal, something that makes one team utterly unelectable even for the average voter.

If that were to happen then there is a possibility that 3rd party candidates would get a large vote.

In the long run it is the 2 party system that needs to change. It serves only the interests of a few.

Ron Paul?

Anybody!!!!!

Ron Paul is not running, but bring the troops home and balance the budget. I could buy that. Nader McKinney, Barr.... I don't care any more. Anything and anyone who would weaken the two party stranglehold.

I would like to see others get credible votes. I believe that that in turn would make it easier to contest future elections.

I really don't understand why people when served up political tripe don't decide to dine elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:46 pm

Every election is always hyped as a tight race regardless of the candidates. This is to keep the wasted vote argument alive.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:01 am

youngdan wrote:
Every election is always hyped as a tight race regardless of the candidates. This is to keep the wasted vote argument alive.

Not true, Labour's landslides in 97, 01 and 05 were well-flagged and Fianna Fáil was widely-tipped at looking at a huge majority in 02. Not every election is hyped as a tight race.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:31 am

I was talking of here where the fear of an independent is great. But when The Conservatives get in there will be no change and if FG get in there will be no change
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:23 pm

In the UK I would welcome a traditional one nation Conservative Party, but what you have with the current offering is anyone's guess. Have met a fair number of them and they don't impress. As for FF and FG; beyond belief because in Ireland there is a voting system that allows for vote transfer, so there is absolutely no risk in voting first for someone that you truely like, then someone less suitable and eventually for the guy whose only value is to keep out the rabid loony.

In the US and in Westminster elections they don't dare risk such a system as the electorate may realise the potential and vote in all sorts of interesting people.

Despite this here is one that is likely to be elected next Westminster election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CtSso0tgHc&feature=related

Worth listening to in debates. She is good on economics and though she comes at it from a decidedly left wing perspective she is right on top of it, and for me most importantly, she is standing as a matter of principle.

Imagine the difference it could make if the US and Westminster had our voting system.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:54 pm

I don't agree that these elections "make no difference". No matter how much compromise and selling out of principles that goes on, there is a different voter base to the different parties and their influence counts for something. The 13 years of Tory rule reshaped Britain in all kinds of ways. The UK was in any event at a turning point as it had run out of steam as a manufacturing base, but Thatcher stamped a new economic model onto the old and sold the idea of the low wage "service economy".
Thatcher's agenda not only affected the outcome for the British, but also provided a demonstration of the Chicago Boys thinking in action that influnced the US. Tony Blair's government was backed a temporary alliance of disillusioned middle class voters and the working class that may not be seen again in the same form.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:09 pm

cactus flower wrote:
I don't agree that these elections "make no difference". No matter how much compromise and selling out of principles that goes on, there is a different voter base to the different parties and their influence counts for something. The 13 years of Tory rule reshaped Britain in all kinds of ways. The UK was in any event at a turning point as it had run out of steam as a manufacturing base, but Thatcher stamped a new economic model onto the old and sold the idea of the low wage "service economy".

You reward miscreants because they have a certain voter base? Surely they should be punished so they stick to their principles next time round?

Brown's-Blair's New Labour have simply been dire. They had the opportunity to pay off debt and build a solid modern economy. Instead they have increased public spending, increased tax, used all sorts of Private Sector Initiatives that were obviously poor value simply to hide the true state of the books. They are obsessed with collecting data and monitoring, and concepts like delegation of responsibility, and allowing people to get on with it appear alien. This is a government that would make ancient Byzantium look efficient.

Alas the existing Conservative Party is equally insincere. A lot of the trouble currently endured started with Thatcher and her stupid dogma.

Economics are fundamentally simple, as Dicken's mentioned;

if a man had 20 pounds a year, and spent 19 pounds 19 shillings and sixpence, he would be happy; but that a shilling spent the other way would make him wretched.

That is a simple truth and the problems starts when you decide to ignore it.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:55 pm

McCain's admission that he doesn't know much about economics and his 24 U turn on AIG isn't helping him.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlidcwauql/

From talking to people in the US, it would take a weirdness of Zinoviev letter scale to stop Obama now.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:24 pm

cactus flower wrote:
McCain's admission that he doesn't know much about economics and his 24 U turn on AIG isn't helping him.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlidcwauql/

From talking to people in the US, it would take a weirdness of Zinoviev letter scale to stop Obama now.

The polls don't back that up though. Obama is 1.7 points ahead on the national average (which means very little). More significant is the fact that the polls are incredibly tight in most of the swing states. Pennsylvania should be a source of considerable concern.

That said, there are a number of things that seem to suggest that Obama has the wind on his back again. Firstly, it is becoming apparent (even among erstwhile McCain supporters) that the man will do or say anything to get to the White House. I have limited time for Obama's vacuous change mantra but the argument that he has any less integrity than McCain is utter rubbish. Secondly, as you point out, McCain is playing into the Democrat's hands by proving that he hasn't a clue about the economy. Finally, the Obama campaign seems to be finally tuning into public discontent. More ads like this will have the desired effect. Obama's inexperience is a major source of concern but the more I see of McCain the less I like him. His maverick image is every bit as dubious as Obama's outsider image. I would now like to see the Obama campaign ditching the ridiculous 50 state strategy and pouring resources into the usual suspects.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:41 pm

cactus flower wrote:
McCain's admission that he doesn't know much about economics and his 24 U turn on AIG isn't helping him.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/World/mhqlidcwauql/

From talking to people in the US, it would take a weirdness of Zinoviev letter scale to stop Obama now.

The weirdness in all this is that Obama hasn't even run a market stall and knows absolutely nothing about economics. His promises and tax raising measures just don't match!

It is likely to be a very close election.

There is a tale about voter fraud-Acorn - Obama that seems to be gathering a bit of momentum. Some think that the results in marginal states are going to be challenged in a manner that would make 2000 look insignificant.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27190
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