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 Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?

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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:40 pm

riadach wrote:

Has McCain been in power for eight years? The stinky fish is not an individual, it is the republican package. You see controversy here, because you wish to.

You forget he is equating McCain as another 4 years of Bush.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:34 am

Obama never even mentioned Palin. The Repubs are full of pigpoop.

However Obama does not have the brainpower to compete here and he should recognise reality. He is going to be beat by a senile half dead guy who is insane. This despite the fact that the country is ruined.

He should stand aside immediately before the debates. He has become a laughingstock
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:52 am

Squire wrote:
riadach wrote:

Has McCain been in power for eight years? The stinky fish is not an individual, it is the republican package. You see controversy here, because you wish to.

You forget he is equating McCain as another 4 years of Bush.

Read the quote. The stinky fish is the republican package, that Bush had for eight years, and now McCain is selling. Only McCain thinks that by wrapping it in change, it will no longer smell. There is no way in the world that the stinky fish refers to an individual.


Last edited by riadach on Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:01 am

youngdan wrote:
Obama never even mentioned Palin. The Repubs are full of pigpoop.

However Obama does not have the brainpower to compete here and he should recognise reality. He is going to be beat by a senile half dead guy who is insane. This despite the fact that the country is ruined.

He should stand aside immediately before the debates. He has become a laughingstock

What makes you think that a graduate of Harvard law school, and a lecturer in constitutional law in the University of Chicago for eight years, as well as the editor of its Harvard Law review does not have the brainpower to compete? Why do americans think that gubernatorial experience, or even senatorial experience, is superior than an actual understanding of the constitutional arrangements of the United States? I'm amazed how Palin for instance, cries foul when constitutional rights such as the right to bear arms are threatened, yet sees no contradiction in denying the rights to a fair trial and rights that protect an individual against summary, arbitrary justice and cruel and unusual punishment.


Last edited by riadach on Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:19 am

Today Ron Paul and Nader made a lot more sense than Grumpy and Doolittle.



If people actually wanted change they could have it.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:14 am

This reminds me of our Lisbon debate, and the strange quasi allianced between Libertas and the left.

I think Nader should be using a long spoon.

What do you think of Paul's economic proposals, Squire? What would happen if the US took the dollar back to a gold standard ?
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:54 am

Barr's running mate says he went to the same school as Obama and he has challenged him in a million dollar wager to show that his grades are better than his even though he did not get into these prestigous schools.

I think Obama is a simpleton. This id the pig incedent http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1510809010279938536&ei=Fb_ISJ3aOoLOrgLDv-jXAg&q=obama+pig&vt=lf

Does not sound like an intelligent man. Forget the pig part. He can not speak forcefully off the top of his head.

Look at what happened in the incedent where the prompter failed

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6745876909800287227&ei=N8DISPqMOImwqwLE3tTJAg&q=obama+telepromter&vt=lf

If this guy is not a half-wit I don't know who is.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:05 am

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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:00 pm

I can't listen to that at the moment, but Obama seems increasingly portrayed as fragile and hesitant. He is on an exhausting schedule. McCain is a very poor speaker even with autocue.

They both look fake to me. The only one who looks like she's playing in character is that Bambi shooter
rendeer Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:36 pm

cactus flower wrote:

What do you think of Paul's economic proposals, Squire? What would happen if the US took the dollar back to a gold standard ?

I think you need balanced budget, I agree with him about the FED, I believe you need 'hard' money as it were, but do not agree that you need to introduce a gold standard or that the consequences would either be desirable or as people expect. Big unnecessary gamble. I would find it hard to fault him on foreign policy and the need for small government.

However like all good ideas you can carry them too extreme and like Newtonian physics you soon find that it doesn't work and fussy logic is more applicable.

Where I would fundamentally disagree with him is that I believe that there are things that the state must do and where we should all support each other rather than leave it entirely to 'survival of the fittest'. I don't want to see the elderly freeze to death because they can't afford their health bills and fuel, nor do I want some young girl forced into prostitution because the family have no money and are starving. You can't rely on charity. These considerations are more important than small government ideology. Equally I (and others) may wish to have the local council provide a youth hall and staff it. So the questions that I then think that need to be addressed are;
1 What services should the state provide, to what level and how are those services to be delivered and managed to ensure quality and efficiency.
2 How do you ensure that central government possesses only the minimum power necessary to function. What does central government actually need to do?
3 How do you empower and democratise local democracy? Perhaps like the Swiss we should be able to vote on local issues and we ourselves decide much of what the council does.
4 Accountability at all levels of government.

If the US tried to introduce the gold standard, I think the amount of gold in Fort Knock would disappear long before the countries debts were paid. Gold is just below 750 dollars an ounce.


Last edited by EvotingMachine0197 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fix blockquote)
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:09 pm

Isn't the problem with the gold standard its inflexibility (as well as its less than obvious use-value)? and as you say, the need to aquire the gold to back the currency with ?

Ron Paul's economic politics seem to me to be about as far to the right as it is possible to go. He wants to withdraw from Iraq, but what are his policies on nuclear arms?

According to this interesting website, no-one knows.

http://blogs.physicstoday.org/politics08/2008/01/ron_paul_on_nuclear_weapons.html
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:20 pm

youngdan wrote:
Barr's running mate says he went to the same school as Obama and he has challenged him in a million dollar wager to show that his grades are better than his even though he did not get into these prestigous schools.

I think Obama is a simpleton. This id the pig incedent http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1510809010279938536&ei=Fb_ISJ3aOoLOrgLDv-jXAg&q=obama+pig&vt=lf

Does not sound like an intelligent man. Forget the pig part. He can not speak forcefully off the top of his head.

Look at what happened in the incedent where the prompter failed

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6745876909800287227&ei=N8DISPqMOImwqwLE3tTJAg&q=obama+telepromter&vt=lf

If this guy is not a half-wit I don't know who is.

On the pig issue, and I am not suggesting he is a Muslim! Anyone with his background should have the sense to be very careful about bringing pigs into the debate. It is often a really bad insult in Muslim countries. Halouffa and Halouf are two words to avoid. I still think in the context it was a not too clever double entendre and in connection with the old fish remark (given McCains background) was a stupid swipe at the pair of them.


With regards his intelligence, there are a lot of bright people who are poor public speakers or debaters. Obama does show some alarming gaps in his education. It wasn't a well rounded education. I am not so sure that he is on top of a lot of the issues. That is fine if he has the sense to realise it and make good the deficit, but I don't think he has that sort of resolve and in that context his pride gives me sleepless nights.

I am not so sure about lofty qualifications. I went to a school were I think just about everyone went to University and the pupils were generally average enough. Full credit to the school, but a lot of average people end up in good Universities. Also IMO the whole world (well 95%) loves a sycophant. Telling people what they want to hear, and flattering them, unfortunately gets you most places. Obama is not the sort of person to tell you it as it is.

If McCain runs that link as a campaign ad Obama is finished.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:24 pm

youngdan wrote:
Barr's running mate says he went to the same school as Obama and he has challenged him in a million dollar wager to show that his grades are better than his even though he did not get into these prestigous schools.

It seems to be that there is a slight bit of racism in that allegation. It kind of implies that Obama only got where he was due to affirmative action.

Quote :

I think Obama is a simpleton. This id the pig incedent http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1510809010279938536&ei=Fb_ISJ3aOoLOrgLDv-jXAg&q=obama+pig&vt=lf

How many simpletons graduate magnum cum laude? How many simpletons become editor and subsequently president of the harvard law review? How many simpletons are given the position of senior lecturer in constitional law in a fairly prestigious law school? Or are you asserting, with the implied racial motive, that Obama has only achieved these positions through the colour of his skin?

Quote :

Does not sound like an intelligent man. Forget the pig part. He can not speak forcefully off the top of his head.

Look at what happened in the incedent where the prompter failed

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6745876909800287227&ei=N8DISPqMOImwqwLE3tTJAg&q=obama+telepromter&vt=lf

If this guy is not a half-wit I don't know who is.

I have noted that Barack does stutter a lot in ordinary speech. He frequently employs delaying tactics, such as interjections like eh, when speaking casually However, that does not mean that what he subsequently has to say is idiotic or unworthy. Indeed, it may imply that he is a much more careful speaker, ensuring that what he says makes sense is perfectly understood. A background in the legal profession may have induced this. As for the teleprompter incident, haven't we all had moments where we just lost our chain of thought?


Last edited by riadach on Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:40 pm

I agree with Riadach. We are seeing very selective bits and pieces of all the candidates in action. Its an adversial situation so we presumably will see everyone's worst moments and a few soundbites of what is assumed to be the best. The idea that top politicians are stupid comes up all the time, say in relation to Bush and Reagan. I'd be disinclined to accept that anyone who gets to this kind of position isn't in many ways as sharp as knife.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:47 pm

C'mon why did Obama think there were 57 states !!

(he's got irish connections alright)

((i swear I'm not racist))
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:53 pm

cactus flower wrote:
Isn't the problem with the gold standard its inflexibility (as well as its less than obvious use-value)? and as you say, the need to acquire the gold to back the currency with ?

Ron Paul's economic politics seem to me to be about as far to the right as it is possible to go.

Totally inflexible and gold is like any other commodity, demand goes up and down. There is no real sense in pegging it to gold that I can see. I look at currency as a device that enables trade. It is the oil of modern economies. I keep reading that too much money causes inflation and I agree too much money chasing goods forces the price up. Equally I have seen places with not enough money in circulation and dire consequences. The question I have always wondered is, what is the correct amount of money required in circulation to make an economy work efficiently? One months national income, one years?

That said I do think you need a very tight reign on credit and governments really should not fund spending on borrowings. I think currencies should more freely move against each other and one of the problems is government interference in currency markets. If the world had one currency, then the East would be awash with it.

So on such matters I am austere, but I do not accept that interest rates are the only or necessarily always the best way to address inflation.

cactus flower wrote:
He wants to withdraw from Iraq, but what are his policies on nuclear arms?

According to this interesting website, no-one knows.

He is right on Iraq, and as far as I know he is strongly opposed to the development of a new generation of nuclear weapons, and supports the reduction of the current stockpiles.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:02 pm

Auditor #9 wrote:
C'mon why did Obama think there were 57 states !!

(he's got irish connections alright)

((i swear I'm not racist))

Ah now, he was caught on the hop. I think someone somewhere has pointed out that he was referencing the overseas territories as well. He just misspoke.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:31 pm

riadach wrote:
Auditor #9 wrote:
C'mon why did Obama think there were 57 states !!

(he's got irish connections alright)

((i swear I'm not racist))

Ah now, he was caught on the hop. I think someone somewhere has pointed out that he was referencing the overseas territories as well. He just misspoke.

Didn't Bertie recently have some confusion about which Counties are in the Republic ?
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:57 pm

Squire you seem a bit confused between being a libertarian and being a Constitutionalist. Paul is the latter and he would not mind if the individual states adopted a Marxist system if they so choose. Now each state has it's own constitution and it is up to them to comply with whatever their own constitution says.

The function of the federal government is defined in the constitution and it would be pared back to that level

Another mistake is assuming that if the money was backed by gold the price would be 750 dollars. The price would be about 50000 dollars an ounce.

Riadach. The clear statement by the guy who put up the bet is that Obama got the entrance because of affermative action. All Obama has to do is release his grades to prove him wrong.

I say if Obama was not black he would not even be considered as a candidate. He is a flyweight. There is no shortage of black politicians in this country that can hold their own and have reached the top. Take Deval Patrick here in Massachusetts. I am none too fond of him either but nobody has ever said that he is lacking in brainpower.

Maybe the drugs fried Obama'a brain but whatever the reason he is coming accross now as a simpleton

These affirmative action laws are very racist because they imply that blacks are dumber than whites and need a leg up. Either that or that employers would pick a less productive white over a good black worker.

In real life here people now will hire a Brazilian because you get more work per dollar pay. No taxes`either.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:07 pm

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Riadach. The clear statement by the guy who put up the bet is that Obama got the entrance because of affermative action. All Obama has to do is release his grades to prove him wrong.

I say if Obama was not black he would not even be considered as a candidate. He is a flyweight. There is no shortage of black politicians in this country that can hold their own and have reached the top. Take Deval Patrick here in Massachusetts. I am none too fond of him either but nobody has ever said that he is lacking in brainpower.

Maybe the drugs fried Obama'a brain but whatever the reason he is coming accross now as a simpleton

These affirmative action laws are very racist because they imply that blacks are dumber than whites and need a leg up. Either that or that employers would pick a less productive white over a good black worker.

In real life here people now will hire a Brazilian because you get more work per dollar pay. No taxes`either.

No, I think the affirmative actions laws state that most blacks need a leg up, since because of history, not ability, they have been placed in a lower socio-economic position than most whites. There are various reasons for this, that I don't think I even need to explain. What affirmative action is about is correcting the imbalance, levelling the scales as it were. However, you have no evidence, other than hearsay and supposition to suggest that this is the reason why Obama is in the position he is in today. You have merely to look at his father's side of the family to see the frequent occurrence of phds and strong educational achievement. Although, I have a feeling you'd prefer to concentrate on his one half-brother who went off the rails and wound up living in Nairobi's slum district.

Obama is, and has proven himself to be a highly intelligent individual. The fact that you deny this and make groundless accusations about him being a simpleton, leads me to think you have an alternative motivation.

Oh, and if the American third level educational system is run in any way similar to the Irish one, there is no way his results, and his graduation of Magna Cum Laude could be manipulated. All university exams are done under anonymity and graduate markings are done by external examiners.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:49 pm

I am only going on what I see him saying every day and the long list of mistakes he has made in this campaign. He is doing the impossible and that is losing to McCain. He has made so many stupid errors that I suspected that his advisers were working for Hillary. Whatever he was years ago he is a moran today.

His brother in the shack cost him big time. Obama with all his shythetalk about helping the poor did not even through his brother a couple of grand after making 5 million last year. If you made 5 million would you have your brother living in a shack.

Obama is a disgrace and should just dissappear. Let Biden take over for God's sake of that other simpleton will win a landslide.

If you want a black then draft in Patrick. He would walk away with it.
Nobody can stomach Obama's pastor, his association with the bombet Ayres, his infanticide support with the Born Alive Infant Bill, his global tax rubbish, His voting for Fisa, his expansion of the war into Pakistan and Dhafur

Hopefully the lawsuit by Berg will get rid of Obama. Berg was deputy attorney general of Pennsylvannia and is a man of high standing
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:20 pm

Berg is not your traditional whacko as many are making out.

The citizenship issue just is not going to go away, and there seems to be evidence that Obama was in fact an Indonesian citizen. Anyway life is too short and time will tell. Here is a link.

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/philip-j-berg-complaint-being-served-on-obama-berg-vs-obama-complaint-served-on-us-attorney-on-behalf-of-the-dnc-and-the-fec-obama-does-not-meet-the-qualifications-to-be-president-of-the-united/
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:31 pm

youngdan wrote:
I am only going on what I see him saying every day and the long list of mistakes he has made in this campaign. He is doing the impossible and that is losing to McCain. He has made so many stupid errors that I suspected that his advisers were working for Hillary. Whatever he was years ago he is a moran today.

He has mispoken a few times. Even in the context of the loss of a teleprompter, he was able to correct himself straight away and realised the mess he had made. Could you imagine George Bush doing that? Even McCain repeatedly denies, then admits that he once stated he knew nothing about the economy.

Quote :

His brother in the shack cost him big time. Obama with all his shythetalk about helping the poor did not even through his brother a couple of grand after making 5 million last year. If you made 5 million would you have your brother living in a shack.

The brother involved went off the rails. He was sleeping rough for a while till his aunt (on his mother's side) found out, and put him up one of the slum dwellings in nairobi. However, there is no way that Obama could have known about this. His father died before this brother was even born, and he is of a different mother to the rest of his siblings, so they wouldn't have known about it either. In fact, he only met that brother when the brother was a baby.

Quote :

Obama is a disgrace and should just dissappear. Let Biden take over for God's sake of that other simpleton will win a landslide.

Hardly.

Quote :

If you want a black then draft in Patrick. He would walk away with it.
Nobody can stomach Obama's pastor, his association with the bombet Ayres, his infanticide support with the Born Alive Infant Bill, his global tax rubbish, His voting for Fisa, his expansion of the war into Pakistan and Dhafur

I watched a video of Rev Wright on youtube, one that was used against Obama i.e. the chickens coming home to roost, and to be honest I was rather impressed. He is an excellent speaker, and though I disagree with the award given by his church to Louis Farrakhan, I think this whole Trinity church issue has been blown into an unfounded smear against both Wright and Obama. Do not forget, he certainly wasn't the only one to support FISA, McCain included. As for Darfur, I don't recall him ever mentioning that the U.S. should be involved directly. In regards to Pakistan, I think it has to be admitted, if one truly wants a solution in the Afghan war (and to some on this forum that is a big if), the theatre in pakistan needs to be included. Only with the will of the Pakistani government. I don't think anything Obama has said would indicate he desired any more than that.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:31 am

I doubt he knew nothing of his brother who he met and knew existed and if he never asked about his well being it is even worse. Don't get me wrong nothing would be worse than McCain because Obama is just a fruitcake but McCain is in fact unhinged and a bully. His temper is well known to his collegues and a pig is a good name for him.

Getting back to the Pastor. He deserves serious study. He believes Aids is a man made disease race specific to black people. What do you think of that ?
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PostSubject: Re: Obama - Does the Hype reflect Reality?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:04 am

youngdan wrote:
I doubt he knew nothing of his brother who he met and knew existed and if he never asked about his well being it is even worse. Don't get me wrong nothing would be worse than McCain because Obama is just a fruitcake but McCain is in fact unhinged and a bully. His temper is well known to his collegues and a pig is a good name for him.

Getting back to the Pastor. He deserves serious study. He believes Aids is a man made disease race specific to black people. What do you think of that ?

I hope Obama gets his act together soon. Sarah Palin is threatening the Russians over Georgia. Nuclear wars don't appeal to me, thanks, and I don't think our economies need the excitement of Putin turning off the oil/gas taps.
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