Equipped for Economic Gloom

Hypothetically assuming that Ireland's economy completely nosedived, my question is to what extent Irish society is able to adapt and cope with such a disaster. (I'm not referring to the reslience of the economy here)

Whilst Ireland remains one of the most generous societies in the world in terms of donations for the relief of poverty at home and abroad, this has greatly diminished over the recent boom times.

Furthermore, the various churches at one point, and to an extent still do, maintain social cohesion within Irish community. However, this has also diminished, for a plethora of reasons, general antipathy, breakdown of communities owing to the property boom, clerical abuse and so on. In years past, the Irish sent their priests with their emigrants. This provided a social fabric for the Irish in Liverpool, London and the States both between each other and back to their home villages/towns/cities. The decline in both interaction with the churches and in vocations would make such a strong social link unlikely into the future.

The social structure has been destroyed. Of more importance is the welfare mentallity best illustrated by the bleatings of Universal saying over yonder that to burden him with student loans was not an investment in the future. This craic of the hand out to the government has got to stop. The government claw into the workers pocket has got to stop as well or the collapse will be total. The working man is really a donkey and a good screwing might waken him up.

To put it terribly bluntly, quite frankly we're fucked. I'm off to the Middle East. 

You have a decision to make. Do you talk Sunni or will you stick to your usual Shiite.

youngdan wrote:You have a decision to make. Do you talk Sunni or will you stick to your usual Shiite.

Neither, seeing as Sunni and Shiite are denomination of Islam, not languages, and I don't intend to convert. Unless that at an attempt at the funny. Either way, I've been speaking a little Gulf Arabic for a while now. 

But to expand on the topic a little more (I still think we're screwed) as we seem to have lost almost all the threads of our social fabric and replaced them with some off form of brash, isolated oneupmanship. While it may be retained in the older generations and small slivers of younger society I don't think we'll be going back to poping around to borrow a cup of sugar or struggling though having bought a new house and not having it fitted out with band new furniture straight away. Then again perhaps I'm just being pessimistic. Our economic success brought many positives but also huge negitives, money which we got too much of and too quickly ruined Irish "society" as it was, perhaps it will filter back to some sort of normality. But I don't think so. If the "recession" is as bad as many are forecasting then Ireland is going to be an awful place to be for the next 10 years. 

cookiemonster wrote:But to expand on the topic a little more (I still think we're screwed) as we seem to have lost almost all the threads of our social fabric and replaced them with some off form of brash, isolated oneupmanship. While it may be retained in the older generations and small slivers of younger society I don't think we'll be going back to poping around to borrow a cup of sugar or struggling though having bought a new house and not having it fitted out with band new furniture straight away. Then again perhaps I'm just being pessimistic. Our economic success brought many positives but also huge negitives, money which we got too much of and too quickly ruined Irish "society" as it was, perhaps it will filter back to some sort of normality. But I don't think so. If the "recession" is as bad as many are forecasting then Ireland is going to be an awful place to be for the next 10 years.

You mentioned before that you're in a job that you get little or no satisfaction from. You've also just been through a highly partisan, emotionally charged campaign that probably brought out the worst in certain parts of society. Perhaps that has fuelled your cynicism.

I'm 23 and I live in Dublin. I know at least 10 of my immediate neighbours and regularly call in for a cup of tea or to ask for a wine opener or whatever. I definitely feel part of a community and I have many friends who feel exactly the same. What social fabric are people talking about?

I admit that if you live in a box in the commuter belt where you have to trek through 50 miles of housing estate to get to your nearest spar then that might be a bit grim but that is not the case everwhere.

I don't think the Celtic Tiger ruined Irish society. It duped a slice of a generation into the worship of property and bullshit but those coming behind them (i.e. my own demographic) have learned a hard lesson and will readjust.

unaligned wrote:

I don't think the Celtic Tiger ruined Irish society. It duped a slice of a generation into the worship of property and bullshit but those coming behind them (i.e. my own demographic) have learned a hard lesson and will readjust.

I can't see how it did either when we're the 5th happiest in the world with the fifth highest Human Development, the fourth most successful country and the highest quality of life according to the EIU.

All those surveys point towards us maintaining a vibrant and healthy society. I see it myself. I know my neighbours several doors down and we all get on very well. I can't remember the last time I saw any socially-undesirable behaviour in our area.

I agree with youngdan's remark that we are worse off now than in the 70s or 80s when we didn't have anything but we didn't owe anything (Banks wouldn't lend). The down side he didn't mention is that all the young people had to leave unless they had an inherited job or worked in public service.

I think we are in a good state to take on problems. Our communities are still there underneath all the ephemeral crap.
We have made some big mistakes and hopefully have learned some big lessons. We still have a relatively young and energetic population and it is bigger and more diverse.

Our main problem is a Government of headless chickens, but I'm sure we can find some way of dealing with that.

Don't go to the gulf, Cookiemonster - Ireland in the siucra is still the land of opportunities.

cactus flower wrote:I agree with youngdan's remark that we are worse off now than in the 70s or 80s when we didn't have anything but we didn't owe anything (Banks wouldn't lend). The down side he didn't mention is that all the young people had to leave unless they had an inherited job or worked in public service.

We're better off than in the 70s/80s. Our economy was poorly diversified then with even more chronic infrastructure deficits without any of the high-technology/high-finance industries that we do now. Ireland is far better balanced and far better able to deal with crises today than in those days. We have more in work, lower National Debt, a higher potential growth rate, a more productive workforce and better access to international markets.

Don't go to the gulf, Cookiemonster - Ireland in the siucra is still the land of opportunities.

Indeed. Ireland's average economic growth out to 2020 will far exceed the likes of Britain, Germany, Italy, France, Sweden and the rest. 2008 is like a shower at a Wimbledon final. A brief period of depression in an era of greatness.

CF - I think your views coincide with those of the previously upper middle income class. There are many people who have managed to get out of the lower income bracket over the last few years. Those people are D McW's new additions to the huge Irish middle class. I think that a lot of them would feel that their families' situations have improved massively over the last 20 years and that they are way better of in terms of housing, education, nutrition, income and opportunity than they were previously. Saying it is worse than the 70s or 80s does not reflect the reality of people's lives.

Sure, the previously upper to middle income section (myself included) have been dragged down to the same level as everybody else, and it's not as nice a place to be as where we were previously, but that's life in a republic for you.

cactus flower wrote:

Don't go to the gulf, Cookiemonster - Ireland in the siucra is still the land of opportunities.

Boundless sunshine, Dairy Queen and a ligitimate reason to wear Linen suits. I'm off!